Using steam to control mash

[MacKiwi]

In my case, the beer ended up with a plastic taste after I sterilized my bottles using a copper manifold driven by the steam generator. And I did not use the plastic hose at all - I found a plumbing fitting that connected directly to where the hose would normally attach on the steam generator, and that connected to the copper manifold via a few inches of silicon hose.

So in my experience the plastic flavor came from the body of the steam generator, not the plastic hose.

But I'm sure they're all different and your mileage will vary. I'm following your dabbling with great interest :hat:

 

[bobsbeer]

Interesting. I'm just using water in my HLT. Apart from the noise it just heated up 20lt from 45 - 50 in about 3 mins. Water is dropping now it's switched off. I'll wait till it drops to 49 then crank it up to 55. This time I switched off at 49.5 and it went up to 50 with the residual steam. Now monitoring my temp with the pid. Not sure if they are all like this machine but is has a cut out section on the plug and a opposing section in the plug socket so normal euro plugs don't fit. I was going to plug my pid in to see how it controlled it, but will need to take the plug off to connect onto my male euro plug.

Edit: Just done the temp increase from 48.8-56.8 in 7 mins. It is tricky to control. I stopped the heat at 55.8 but it carried on up. A valve would help with that

 

[troutie]

Ha I love tinkering with stuff

Just done heatup no 2 of 16 litres from cold I changed the pipe for some Silicon tube


start temp 15c
20c at 2 mins 55 s = 2 mins 55 s
30c at 7 mins 12 = 4 mins 17 s
40c at 12 mins 40 = 4mins 23 s
50 c at 17 mins 50 = 5 mins 10 s
60 c at 23 mins = 5 mins 10 s
70 c at 29 mins = 6 mins

Going to let this one cool and have a taste to see if plasticy come through

Also it used 2 litres of water in the stripper


Edit
Had a taste and it was just hot water taste :thumb:
but I guess a brew needs doing to check it out for real .

Little video of it working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReW9NRucdTY

 

[bobsbeer]

I need to swop over to silicone tube. I'll have to use a pipe clamp onto the thread as I don't have any suitable fittings and I don't want to destroy the original pipe. Looks like a 12-13mm fitting is needed.

 

[troutie]

I need to swop over to silicone tube. I'll have to use a pipe clamp onto the thread as I don't have any suitable fittings and I don't want to destroy the original pipe. Looks like a 12-13mm fitting is needed.

I butchered the pipe as not got any wallpaper left in the house to strip :thumb:

From my meddling I am fairly happy I can do an acurate step mash I just need a recipe and mash schedule to follow .
got an empty FV and a clean sheet so no ingredients

any suggestions gratefully accepted for a trial brew of 23 litres

 

[bobsbeer]

I've had enough experimenting for one day. I did a side by side test to see how it performed as a heater for the HLT. This time I connected the steamer to the HLT via the valve with about 12" silicone hose.
Steam
Start temp 11.6
End temp 70c
Time 42 minutes.

Electric element
Start temp 12c
End temp 70c
Time 43 minutes

So no practical difference in heating up time, but with the steam method the volume did go up by about 1.5lt. On the 20lt trial I did notice a degree of stratification, but a stir sorted that. But you get that even with the electric element, or at least I do, and I have to stir to ensure I have an accurate reading. A way round the increase in volume may be using an immersion coil in the mash tun. No doubt it would reduce efficiency, but it would be less harmful to the grains, and prevent the volume increasing. But I don't know how much difference 2lt would have on a mash? Not much I suspect, but the temp increase would be slower and that would be beneficial. The steam exhaust could be into another bucket thereby collecting the water and reducing steam vapour.

As an aside it did clean my hop filter. I thought it was clean until I saw the muck being blown out. :lol:

 

[troutie]

I did think about a coil and exhaust but from observing the steam and manifold I think the water would condense in the coil and block the system untill enough pressure built up to eject it so maybe not a good way

with stirring I do think it is a gentle way to do a step mash in a plastic tun

Yep reverse flush of the hop filter sounds good there were lots of debris flushed from my
mash filter too

 

[bobsbeer]

Sadly I destroyed my immersion chiller by turning it into a counter chiller at TST, but in 8mm pipe I think once the mash was up to temp and the steamer boiling, any condensate would be ejected fairly easily. I would expect steam to still come out of a decent coil as the heat would not dissipate that quickly. I wish I still had my coil to try it out.

 

[bobsbeer]

Just ordered this so I can connect it up to the PID. The steamer has an odd euro connector.

 

[troutie]

OK I can confirm that with my steamer and the water in the tun at 40 degrees and upto 70 degrees the steam does indeed condense in the coil
and the steamer relief valve opened it did spit out some water from the coil but not a constant flow



In my mind I think the best way for this method is through the filter manifold and to take in to account the water volume increase

on a side note I also squeezed a lemon into the steamer for this boil and it cleaned up the insides like a new pin
and thinking it would be better to use distilled or RO water in it

 

[bobsbeer]

It would be interesting to see how the immersion coil manages in the mash temp range between 50-70. The hotter the mash temp the less condensation will occur. I suspect that most occurs in the early stages of heating up. From ambient 10-13c to 50c.

Yesterday in my tests I didn't notice any plastic/rubber taste in the water, even after several heating and cooling cycles when using the silicone to connect onto the manifold valve. Did you notice any taste difference?

 

[troutie]

I tried the coil starting at 40 c and lifted the temp to 50 c it took a lot longer but didnot have the watch going
I then emptied the coil and tried again from 50 to 60 and same for 60 to 70
it still filled up with water and the pressure relief valve was bubbling all the time .

no plastic smell or taste and also smelled the steam and it seemed clear my steamer has been stood idle for about 5 years
now its been used again a few times and cleaned with the lemon juice it seems good .

going to try a brew this week using the Mashtun filter with steps of 50/60/65/70/78 c all temps taken from perusing the forums unless someone with knowledge comes along with a better schedule
looking at a Saison as have the Danstar Belle Saison yeast arriving tomorrow from TMM

 

[bobsbeer]

oing to try a brew this week using the Mashtun filter with steps of 50/60/65/70/78 c all temps taken from perusing the forums unless someone with knowledge comes along with a better schedule
looking at a Saison as have the Danstar Belle Saison yeast arriving tomorrow from TMM

Brill. I look forward to your results. As a step method it seems a really good way to do it. It would be good to do a side by side experiment with the coil and steam right into the mash. I will maybe try one in a few weeks. Using the same steps as you. I don't think the added volume would make much difference, but whether the grains in and around the steam outlet would be adversely affected remains to be seen. But as that is the method used in the brew system on the first post it can't be that bad.

 

[troutie]

Made myself a steam stirrer to try out



Worked ok in a pan and brought it to the boil pretty quick
just need to give it a good clean to get the flux off and out of it .

 

[troutie]

Update on the steam brewing not tried the paddle yet but have now done 3 brews using the manifold in the mash tun
and its looking good and also tasting good if a tad on the young side

here is a brew I did with MO and Sazz with a splash of rolled oats plus a few bits and bobs
did a 50c / 64c/69c/ 78c step mash as an experiment and yeasted with us04

its only just gone in the Cornie yesterday but could not resist pulling a glass today



not quite Feck test pass but may be when a little time has passed
tastes good and no plasticy detected but will have to run it by the missus who can taste and smell 1 part per trillion of bad things

 

[bobsbeer]

Just had a read of this article, although quite old is a good description of the method and some of the science behind it. Clearly the author was ahead of his time. But a good read for anyone interested in using steam to heat their mash.

HERE