All-grain water questions

[Fore]

Hi there. However much I study this , I still seem to have questions. Yes it's a deep and complicated subject! The thing is, as I'm just watching or reading, I can never ask to clear up my specific confusions, and they linger. So I start this thread as somewhere I can ask. Hoping you can help. I start with my water report:

Calcium: 31.5
Magnesium: 26.3
Sodium: 83.9 (assumed from ion balance)
Sulphate: 63.9
Chloride: 38.0
Alkalinity (as CaCO3): 244
Total hardness (as CaCO3): 231
pH: 7.2
Nitrate: 5.7

And using Bru'n water, I obtained the following:

Bicarbonate: 297.3
Carbonate: 0.2
Total hardness: 187
Permanent hardness: 0
Temporary hardness: 187
Alkalinity: 246
RA effective hardness: 133
Residual alkilinity (as CaCo3): 208

 

[Leon103]

And now the question????

 

[Fore]

And I guess a good first question is to double check my current treatment plan.

My next 23l brew will be a fairly golden bitter, 12.2 EBC, 25 EBU, 3.9 ABV. I aim for at least 50 on the calcium, and in doing so, I aim for a balance in the sulphate/chloride ratio (to match this beer style). My acid is CRS, which works to raise the suplhate ion a lot more than the chloride. I also use a quarter of a Campden tablet, which I understand will also lift my Sulphate ion a bit. So I stick only to Calcium Chloride addition, at 2.3g in 14.7l mash water. I use Brewer's Friend to determine how much acid I need with a target mash of pH5.4. It gives me 20.5ml CRS. I also plan to acidify my 16.5l sparge water. Following Brewer's Friend recommendation to target a sparge water of pH5.4, I need 18.5ml CRS.

The final water profile is (unchanged if not mentioned):
Calcium: 51.6
Sulphate: 180.1
Chloride: 158.5 (1.14 ratio)
Alkalinity: 3.2
Residual alkalinity: -49.1

Does this seem OK?

 

[strange-steve]

It seems to me you're complicating it somewhat. For now just stick to the basics, ie. calcium and alkalinity, and to a lesser extent sulphate and chloride. Ignore the other values and ignore the ion increase from the CRS and campden.

Get the alkalinity into the right range dependant on the grist, and get the calcium up around 100ppm using gypsum if the beer is hoppy , calcium chloride if it's malty, a combination if it's balanced. That'll give you a good start. There's not really any point in being pedantic over a few ppm here or there because it won't make much difference over "close enough".

 

[Fore]

It's an interesting subject. I've been brewing 23 years and about time I lifted my understanding a bit. All I'm currently doing is adding acid to reach mash pH target, and calcium to reach an often quoted minimum of 50. I've never really properly tied down which calcium to add, or how much (I'm trying to improve on that). And I only recently thought of acidifying my sparge water, because I get astringency (a new project if you like). I only list the other ions because I have them, but I completely overlook Sodium, Magnesium, Nitrate, water pH.

You say I should get calcium to 100, but many say 50 is OK. It might well be that it really doesn't make much difference either way. I've only ever targeted 50, so I don't have experience to call on. Of course I could easily add more calcium and get to 100ppm, but then I'm lifting my sulphite and chloride levels much higher. Maybe that's ok also, and again would hardly make any difference. I'm just hoping for pointers to avoid several months of sub par beers while trying different profiles.

But here one of my many confusions... You always hear that a hard water is high in calcium and magnesium. But my water report shows I have hard water, yet low calcium & magnesium. It took me ages to even conclude I have hard water. So why does my water have this contradiction? I'm thinking that the calcium they talk of is not the calcium mentioned in the water report, it's tied up somehow, calcium bicarbonate or something. Is that right?

 

[strange-steve]

You're right that 50 ppm is an often cited minimum, but that is considered a bit low by some, depending on the yeast used or the beer style. Between 50 and 200 ppm is a reasonable range, so I generally aim for 100 which will provide more than enough for yeast health, maybe a bit more for English styles, a bit less for lagers.

You may find a healthier fermentation or quicker clearing with a bit more calcium without any ill effects. You'll probably find too that you need less CRS with a higher calcium concentration. Don't be too concerned about lifting your sulphate/chloride too high, because your base concentrations are reasonably low. Adding 70 ppm calcium worth of salts won't add an excessive amount.

Regarding your hardness (phrasing) the reason there seems like a contradiction is that although your calcium is quite low, the magnesium is actually relatively high, and magnesium contributes almost twice as much towards total hardness as does calcium. For comparison, my water has about the same calcium as yours but only 6ppm magnesium which brings my total hardness down to 100.

Have you had a look at my guides to water treatment? I've tried to keep everything as simple and understandable as possible, while explaining the "whys":
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/beginners-guide-to-water-treatment.64822/
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/more-advanced-water-treatment.71451/