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Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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JockyBrewer

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How can you do that without a special electric meter for the car to avoid hitting people who rely on electricity for heating (old economy 7 & new heat pumps)
Only way would be to mandate car charging at a different voltage & then meter that voltage output differently from normal electricity.

Same with this road pricing stuff. Are they going to factor in the kerb weight or MPG numbers to weight the charges so heavier / more polluting vehicles pay more? I doubt it - thats why all those SUV tank drivers think its much better than tax at the pump
Not exactly hard is it.

e.g. Give people with storage heaters/heat pumps a rebate that covers heating costs.

Your second point about kerb weight explains nearly why the electricity should be taxed.
 

JockyBrewer

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So the rich bloke who has the money to buy the latest most efficient car and who can afford to put solar panels on his roof and charge his car on his drive gets almost free travel and the plebs queue up at the only lamppost in the street that has a charger. aheadbutt

My tongue was slightly in my cheek when i posted but i am sure you get my drift.
Not really sure what you’re getting at.

The guy that can install a massive amount of solar panels gets free travel today (although will have paid a lot to get the panels and batteries to do so, so whether it’s ‘free’ is debatable). At least in that case it means the car isn’t polluting.

I’m not sure what any of that has to do with people queueing at lamp posts?
 

Markk

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So the rich bloke who has the money to buy the latest most efficient car and who can afford to put solar panels on his roof and charge his car on his drive gets almost free travel and the plebs queue up at the only lamppost in the street that has a charger. aheadbutt

My tongue was slightly in my cheek when i posted but i am sure you get my drift.
I thought of this as I have solar panels. Unfortunately I use the car for work so it would sit on the drive charging at night when electricity costs me and be in the car park at work when my electricity is free! Excellent if you work nights 😉
 

Bernie

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Who said Hydrogen is the solution just remember what happened to the Hindenburg. Went down like Led Zeppelin.
The fire of the Hindenburg was the Airship's structure rather than the hydrogen burning. Once liberated the hydrogen would have risen quickly and would have exploded, although, if it had burned the flame would have been above the airship. Methane cars (any car with a fuel line that alternate between petrol and methane) using another combustible gas lighter than air are commonplace in Europe and enjoy tax breaks as they pollute less than petrol run cars.
Safety issues with hydrogen are a concern but can be addressed and solved.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Not really sure what you’re getting at.

The guy that can install a massive amount of solar panels gets free travel today (although will have paid a lot to get the panels and batteries to do so, so whether it’s ‘free’ is debatable). At least in that case it means the car isn’t polluting.

I’m not sure what any of that has to do with people queueing at lamp posts?

My reply was to the post -

Easy enough to tax electricity,
Is it fair that if an extra tax was put on electricity because the tax on petrol/diesel would dwindle those who can afford to buy the latest new cars with best efficiency and who can afford to fit solar panels and have a place where they can always park and charge their cars should get almost free travel while the rest of us struggle to find a place to charge the car and get screwed by extra tax for the privilege of driving one.
 

Northern_Brewer

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How can you do that without a special electric meter for the car to avoid hitting people who rely on electricity for heating (old economy 7 & new heat pumps)
Only way would be to mandate car charging at a different voltage & then meter that voltage output differently from normal electricity.
Or you have a meter in the car - cars already have a mile-meter that goes into a government database every time you go through an MOT, so if you were going the straight pay-per-mile route (which is reasonably unlikely) then you could pay a monthly amount based on estimated mileage and then finalise the amount for the year based on the meter check at MOT.

Same with this road pricing stuff. Are they going to factor in the kerb weight or MPG numbers to weight the charges so heavier / more polluting vehicles pay more?
That's how road pricing works now - if you want to drive over the Dartford Crossing then cameras will identify your numberplate, then look up a database which tells them if that numberplate belongs to a motorbike, car, LGV or HGV, and charge different amounts depending on what vehicle it is.

Road tax used to work in a similar way, but with car models split into something like 8 bands based on CO2 emissions, so the more polluting vehicles paid more (a lot more at the top of the scale).

So it's nothing that can't be done.
 

Rodcx500z

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I will be 77 when all this shite kicks in if it does just thinking of hs2 and other major projects run by officialdom bla bla millions over budget 10 years behind lots of money changeing hands its how corruption works, right its time for a beer clapa:beer1:
 

JockyBrewer

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My reply was to the post -



Is it fair that if an extra tax was put on electricity because the tax on petrol/diesel would dwindle those who can afford to buy the latest new cars with best efficiency and who can afford to fit solar panels and have a place where they can always park and charge their cars should get almost free travel while the rest of us struggle to find a place to charge the car and get screwed by extra tax for the privilege of driving one.
I’m not advocating for what you’re suggesting.

I’m suggesting avoiding having a regressive system (e.g. a flat road tax) and instead tax on general energy usage, so the people that consume the most (usually the wealthiest) pay the most, whether they’re using it to drive their 4x4 or heat their swimming pool.

If it becomes so cheap to install solar panels to get ‘free’ electricity then everyone will do it, not just the wealthy.

Finally if every car is electric then charging points are going to be everywhere. Nobody is going to be queueing at a lamp post. Saying that is like suggesting we should all still be going to a local water pump instead of having a water supply to our houses, or only using the internet at our local library instead of at home or on your mobile phone.
If the demand is there the infrastructure will get built.
 

Chippy_Tea

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If it becomes so cheap to install solar panels to get ‘free’ electricity then everyone will do it, not just the wealthy.
You can install panels on the roof of your house in a terraced street to get free electricity (as above) but try getting your car to the front door to plug it in.

Finally if every car is electric then charging points are going to be everywhere. Nobody is going to be queueing at a lamp post. Saying that is like suggesting we should all still be going to a local water pump instead of having a water supply to our houses, or only using the internet at our local library instead of at home or on your mobile phone.
If the demand is there the infrastructure will get built.
I think you are missing the point if you do not have a drive and solar panels you cannot charge your car at home free of charge (or for a little more if using mains) this means you will be forced to pay whatever the companies that install the charging stations decide to charge and that will not be cheap and it'll be a lot less convenient.
 

terrym

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If the demand is there the infrastructure will get built.
In theory that's correct.
However the reality is that the demand has already been projected, but the vast infrastructure, at all levels of power generation and distribution required to support it, potentially affecting every road and household in the country and more besides, has not been started in any significant way. Has it even reached the preliminary design phase? Are major contracts being let now? I doubt it. It's a massive undertaking that will take years to design, procure, build and commission, and the current signs given the commitments that have been made, do not give many the confidence that the infrastructure will be in place to support the demand when it starts to ramp up leading up to 2030 and thereafter.
 

JockyBrewer

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You can install panels on the roof of your house in a terraced street to get free electricity (as above) but try getting your car to the front door to plug it in.

I think you are missing the point if you do not have a drive and solar panels you cannot charge your car at home free of charge (or for a little more if using mains) this means you will be forced to pay whatever the companies that install the charging stations decide to charge and that will not be cheap and it'll be a lot less convenient.
That’s all fair enough, but I think these problems will get solved, perhaps not in ways we’d necessarily expect.

I’ve posted further above that I think that at least in cities and towns the majority of people won’t own cars any more. It’ll be more economical to hire an autonomous vehicle door to door.

In any case I am certain the days of burning fossil fuels are numbered.
 

Chippy_Tea

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I have a solution all we need is the charging cable to be on a hinged arm like on the yellow pump top right fixed to the front of the house you could them park outside your house swing the arm out and plug it in, sorted, off to apply for my patent. ;)


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Markk

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Road tax used to work in a similar way, but with car models split into something like 8 bands based on CO2 emissions, so the more polluting vehicles paid more (a lot more at the top of the scale).
The road tax grading system is a farce. There are some seriously dangerous gasses that come out of an exhaust pipe. Nitrous Oxide, Carbon Monoxide to name just two and yet its the quantity of CO2 emitted that determines how polluting a vehicle is 🙄
in addition, we have a Mercedes R class which costs £300+ per year to tax because of the high emissions. I also have a Smart Car that I use for commuting which costs nothing to tax because of the low emissions. In reality, the annual emissions from my Smart are far higher than the Mercedes as I do a 70 mile round trip to work in it every day. The Mercedes is used by my wife who's a childminder and only does About 20 miles a week.
 

Leon103

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Or you have a meter in the car - cars already have a mile-meter that goes into a government database every time you go through an MOT, so if you were going the straight pay-per-mile route (which is reasonably unlikely) then you could pay a monthly amount based on estimated mileage and then finalise the amount for the year based on the meter check at MOT.



That's how road pricing works now - if you want to drive over the Dartford Crossing then cameras will identify your numberplate, then look up a database which tells them if that numberplate belongs to a motorbike, car, LGV or HGV, and charge different amounts depending on what vehicle it is.

Road tax used to work in a similar way, but with car models split into something like 8 bands based on CO2 emissions, so the more polluting vehicles paid more (a lot more at the top of the scale).

So it's nothing that can't be done.
Haven't had a mot in years. I won't have to pay anything
 

Linalmeemow

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The road tax grading system is a farce. There are some seriously dangerous gasses that come out of an exhaust pipe. Nitrous Oxide, Carbon Monoxide to name just two and yet its the quantity of CO2 emitted that determines how polluting a vehicle is 🙄
in addition, we have a Mercedes R class which costs £300+ per year to tax because of the high emissions. I also have a Smart Car that I use for commuting which costs nothing to tax because of the low emissions. In reality, the annual emissions from my Smart are far higher than the Mercedes as I do a 70 mile round trip to work in it every day. The Mercedes is used by my wife who's a childminder and only does About 20 miles a week.
Forgive me for asking such a daft question then - why do you bother with the R class?
 

Markk

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Forgive me for asking such a daft question then - why do you bother with the R class?
We use the car as a family car as well as my wifes work car and so wanted something a bit half decent with 7 seats. Had it two years but now looking to part ex for something a bit cheaper to run.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Haven't had a mot in years. I won't have to pay anything
Either you've got very old cars that aren't electric (so just wait til petrol duty doubles), or you've got very new cars that probably already have a mobile phone chip in them that can report in to the government without going for an MOT....
 
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