Beginner experimentation

[Sventendo NES]

Hi brewers.
So I'm very new to brewing and I find I understand a hobby best when I experiment. I have a plan and would be great if I could get you lot to tell me if I'm about to make a fatal error.

I plan to buy a 40 pint brew kit (undecided which one but it will probably be an IPA) and mix it up in a 25L bucket. I then plan to split the mixture between 5x 5L demijohns.

This will then allow me to experiment with adding different hops, yeasts, sugar amount, temperature, and all the other stuff we do when we brew up the good stuff.

In my mind this is going to give me 5 different yet delicious variations of the same beer however my imagination often exceeds my ability.

I already have all the equipment needed for this. I'm only looking to use dry hops and malt kit. No fancy boiling etc.

Any (aka as much as you can be bothered to type) advice would be greatly appreciated. I would love the following questions answered.
1. Am I being a moron for trying this?
2. Anyone done this before?
3. Should I be focused more on different yeasts or hops?
4. What's the best quantity of yeast/hops for a 5L demijohn?
5. Go on. Be honest. Am I being a moron?

Cheers in advance of the copious and insightful advise.

 

[MashBag]

Someone said "a clever man learns from his mistakes, but a smart man learns from others mistakes" or something very similar.

It wasn't me, sadly, but I think he was a brewer.

Why not decide what you want to make and let us help you with some recommendations /recipes/tips etc.

That way, the maths suggests you will end up with more and better beer, that will make you grin.

 

[Sventendo NES]

Probably some ancient greek guy.
Well I really like very bitter/citrus IPA style so any suggestions on the type I could use you might have would be great. I'm only onto my 3rd brew so not really acquainted first hand with what's out there. My first was a Cooper's IPA but I got too excited and started emptying the barrel the day after filling it. Second was a wilco Thirsty Devil red ale which I bottled and came out pretty decent. Third is a bulldog double IPA which is still in the FV. Like I say I'm very open to being told to do something completely different if you guys think it would work better.

 

[MashBag]

Honestly go all grain. Bite the bullet.
Traditional kits imo always have a twang.

Mid way might be fresh work kits.. Definitely a bit more expensive, but you could cut your teeth without buying a lot any more kit.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/pro...itres-brewers-yeast-selection/?v=79cba1185463

 

[welly3]

Lots of people have done this kind of experimentation before so not at all a moron. It's a good idea but what would be more useful is just changing one variable rather than multiple for each batch.

So in your 5 demijohns, only swap the yeast to see what affect that has. Then repeat the experiment changing the hops perhaps. If you change too many variables then you won't know what has contributed what to each beer.

You should share the results with the rest of us

 

[Sadfield]

Do it. Nobody on here can tell you how things taste to you. That knowledge is indispensable going forward. All the great chefs in the world learn this way, by experimenting and tasting.

Hops vs yeast? If you favour IPAs then hops would be a great way to go, using a neutral yeast. A 8g/L dry hop addition has been found to be the optimum for citrus aromas.

 

[sifty]

Yep go for it. When doing a whole batch you always wonder how changing any of the variables would affect things. (or if you've boogered it up trying something new).

I'd be tempted to boil the lot up with common bittering hops then split the cooled wort and try 2-3 different yeasts and dry hop strategies over your samples. Just because oherwise you're doing lots of separate boils.

Let us know how you get on, and record everything in case you make a winner...

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Do it, I've sometimes divided my 20l batches into 2 to test out different yeasts or to make a 10l coconut stout and a 10l rum and raisin with the same base beer.

 

[Sventendo NES]

Great suggestions. This was just the infos I was looking for and the encouragement is a welcome change from the wife's "bulldog chewing a wasp" face she gives me whenever I go near my brewing bench.

Ok so I'm gonna ask some noob questions now. I already (think) I know the answers to some of them but just want you guys take.

1.If I do the first experiment changing only the yeast, which 5 yeast types/brands would be on your wish list?

If I then do the whole thing again focusing on hops,which hops would be on the list?

(I actually have enough demijohns to do both experiments at the same time. Just don't have enough bottles spare to keep all the beer in after)

Many kits don't require any sugar to be added. What's happens if I add more?

Does sugar type matter. Fancy spray malt Vs Lidl 50p tooth rotter?

What else can I add into the mix?

Thanks team mad scientist

 

[Sadfield]

Based on a preference for citrus IPA's.

1.If I do the first experiment changing only the yeast, which 5 yeast types/brands would be on your wish list?

Safale US-05 and K-97, Lallemand Nottingham and Verdant, and Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell.

If I then do the whole thing again focusing on hops,which hops would be on the list?

Simcoe, Citra, Centennial, Cascade and Amarillo. Classics.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Just going with the yeast I'd go bog standard, 05, mj hophead, verdant ipa, mj west coast and t58 to mix it up a bit.

These are all dry yeast as I don't use liquid.

 

[Jim Brewster]

Liberty Bell makes for a good pale ale too

There's loads you could do, same recipe with different yeasts, or same yeasts with different single hops, or same hops with different dry hopping rates, or even adding fruits, herbs or spices.

I tend not to experiment too much these days and just aim to make something drinkable although had some success last year with a beer with loads of ginger added

 

[Sventendo NES]

Great advice all round. So if I'm going to buy 5 different sachets of Yeast but only be using 5L demijohns would I only be using a fifth of each sachet or will I just put the lot in?
If not would the yeast keep if it's been opened?
Also same question on hops. Is there anywhere online I can get custom quantities?

 

[Sadfield]

If not would the yeast keep if it's been opened?

Yes. Try and reseal the packets, put them in a clean container in the fridge. Same with the hops, except put them in the freezer instead.

If you find you like different aspects of two or three yeasts, you can always use them as blend in a future brew.

 

[Sventendo NES]

Great thanks. That's what I will do! I'm really grateful of all the wisdom. I'm putting all this into a spread sheet which I will share for further scrutiny.
Who do you guys use as your preferred online supplier? I'm very rural here in the bottom half of South Lanarkshire so the closest brew shop is in Glasgow I believe. I will sneek off up there eventually though when the wife isn't looking.

 

[MashBag]

Great advice all round. So if I'm going to buy 5 different sachets of Yeast but only be using 5L demijohns would I only be using a fifth of each sachet or will I just put the lot in?
If not would the yeast keep if it's been opened?
Also same question on hops. Is there anywhere online I can get custom quantities?

Get your yeast from crossmyloof.

Online Store | brewstore

You can't keep yeast easily when opened, but you can split it between demijohns.

 

[Davvy]

Hello,
As Mashbag says allgrain is excellent for multiple experimentations, a brew in the bag setup is relatively inexpensive. (I am an electric / BIAB brewer).
As for suppliers :
Crossmyloof, geterbrewed, thehomebrewcompany are my go to's as I also live in the back of beyond and a trip to my local home brew shop would be something like 100 miles !

Crossmyloof are a brilliant company with great and inexpensive yeast...

Go for it !!

 

[Nicks90]

If youre dead set on doing this, I would suggest scaling it back a bit and do the following
2 demijohns with one yeast type, but different hops in each one
2 demijohns with a second yeast, but again using the same 2 hops as above
1 demijohn using no additional hops and use the kit yeast - so basically boggo standard kit mix.

This will let you see the difference between 3 yeasts and their effects on hop taste against each and how it compares to the standard kit. that's comparable more systematically across the whole brew and will probably benefit you more going forwards.

But yes, just go all grain and be done with it.
If time is not an issue, do 10l stove top brews using a big stew pot so you can do LOTS of smaller batches

As for suggested hops to add, my money would be on citra and Apollo. 2 very different hops to really let you see how it goes together - with verdunt IPA yeast and MJ hazy west coast yeast

 

[Sventendo NES]

So far I'm liking the sound of Nicks90 method. This was kind of what I had already half formed in my subconscious mind. I love the idea of just doing a yeast or a hop only experiment but the big impatient part of me want to play with all the ingredients right off the bat.

Also I will 100% be getting into all grain eventually however I don't want my first time to be the time I do this test. I would just worry I had added an additional factor, my incompetence, as an unwanted variable.

So yeah a mid range kit as a base level in one demi then messing around with the other 4 sounds like my thing .

Ok team, so if you were going to run the experiment as per nicks90 blueprint what would you guys do personally? We need just 2 hops and 2 yeasts as well as 1 kit. GO!!!
P.S no copying what nicks90 said

 

[Davvy]

As a basic model for experimentation the "nicks90" method is completely sound !
gives you five results from 2 hops and 2 yeasts. (plus your control).

As for the yeast ; dry, 10g easily accessible / widely used would be my first goal, so Safale US-05 & Lallemand Nottingham would be my advice. US05 giving a "peachy/sweet" background flavour, and Nottingham being relatively clean and neutral when I have used them.

For Hops ; any American IPA type would be good ; Citra, amarillo, or Mosaic etc, would be one good choice. I would personally go for something different for your other hop...plenty of choice from things like New Zealand hops.

For both hop, and yeast I would make sure that the choices to begin with are easily repeatable, as if you like what you end up with, you really want to then repeat it.