boil time

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Hello all,
I've been reading a few articles, recipes etc on partial and ag brewing...why is the boil time a hour?

Cheers

Clint

In grain brewing it takes about An hour for the 'hot break' to occur which forms at the end of the boil to precipitate the proteins into what we call trub which settles out
This helps considerably in producing a clear wort which in turn produces a clearer beer after fermentation.
Chilling beer rapidly after boiling also promotes the cold break further clearing the wort.
 
That's a great reply..thanks! I need a good book...I like to know everything as I feel if I understand something I can hopefully make a better job of it!

Cheers

Clint
 
One hour is also a pretty good length of time for the extraction of bitterness from your "copper hops" - the early addition that provides the bitterness in beer. Isomerisation - bitterness extraction in other words - drops off after 40mins or so, and is pretty much all done after an hour.
I guess this was more important in the past, when most hops were low in alpha-acid (the bittering ingredient), so you wanted to extract a high percentage of their bittering potential. Today, with very high alpha-acid hops cheaply available, I reckon it's a much less important factor.
I usually boil for 1 hr. I wonder if I'd notice much difference if I boiled for 45mins?? I tend to doubt it - must try it sometime!
(Incidentally, I no-chill & leave all the hops in the slowly-cooling wort overnight, so bittering is no issue for me - I have to adjust my recipes accordingly by backing-off on the bittering hops)
 
I need a good book...I like to know everything as I feel if I understand something I can hopefully make a better job of it!

Have a look at this:
http://howtobrew.com/
I also think Graham Wheeler's book are a decent intro - but only for traditional British beers.
If you really want to know everything, well someone recently put a link on this forum to a free pdf download of:
Brewing: Science and Practice
Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes and
Roger Stevens
But, at 863 pages, it might be OTT! (it also dates back to the 1980s, but the basic principles remain much the same).
I did download it - with the full intention of reading it. However, I'm now 65 and i wonder if I have enough time left before I get round to it..........:lol:
 
In grain brewing it takes about An hour for the 'hot break' to occur which forms at the end of the boil to precipitate the proteins into what we call trub which settles out
This helps considerably in producing a clear wort which in turn produces a clearer beer after fermentation.
Chilling beer rapidly after boiling also promotes the cold break further clearing the wort.

i thought hot break was at the start of the boil,when it foams up, is that wrong?
 
I did 90 min boils for aeons until the penny dropped that they were a waste of electricity and half an hour of my day. I've done 45 min boils and couldn't tell the difference but something in my psyche didn't sit comfortably with that so for the last few years I've done 60 min boils. All good...
 
I usually do 80 - 90 minute boils. Can't remember why I opted with this but possibly because my boiler occasionally cuts off due I assume to overheating. The extra time just compensates for any dead time.
Not sure why the extra half hour would be adding to your brew day though - I usually spend it sat in a chair by the fire with a pint of a previous brew. Not exactly time wasted...
 
I boil for an hour unless it's a barley wine or a dark mild. These I give 2 hours and 90 mins respectively to encourage caramelisation of the sugars (both those extracted from the grains and any actual sugar additions). It seems to work - i.e. I can taste the flavour in the beer - but of course you have to take into account the greater loss of liquid and the boiler element needs a bit more cleaning.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
My first outing with the Ace boiler, and I turned the stat down quickly to avoid a boil over, and did this twice.
Foolishly I should have turned the boiler off.
Anyway, it was a good 10 minutes each time before the stat kicked in again, and I proceeded my boil.
Now considering that my hops had been in for an hour and I didn't want my beer too bitter, i stopped the boil process.
I bet in total, it had no more than 40 minutes.

The beer turned out fine, it impressed me enough to continue with the AG hobby.

I also read somewhere that the hot break happens within the first 5-10 minutes. Basically, when the foam has subsided, it's broken.
 
i thought hot break was at the start of the boil,when it foams up, is that wrong?

Yes


This is not the hot break. The hot break occurs between at least 1 hour & 90 minutes of the boil. & is the precipertations of proteins. It's quite obvious whe it happens by visible flecks coagulating in the wort.

It is true that bitterness from the hops is extracted earlier
 
The boil does a bunch of things, extracting and isomerisation of compounds from the hops, reactions involving the proteins and sugars that contribute to the flavour and colour, sterilising the wort, inactivating the malt enzymes, evaporation of volatile compounds, increasing acidity, and the coagulation of proteins. Despite all this, you don't have to boil at all, in which case you've made a raw ale which, by all accounts, can be a great beer. I've made good beer with 45 and 90 minutes boils, and as cheapbrew's link show, you could do a 30 minutes boil and make a beer indistinguishable from a beer with a 60 minute boil.

The hot break coagulates the proteins so that they can drop out of solution. This is because the proteins molecules unfold, revealing their 'sticky' innards, and they stick to one another and aggregate into clumps big enough for gravity to pull them down. The question of when it happens splits opinion, as this thread and others show, but the question misses the point. You can't point to one moment in time and say 'the hot break has happened'. There are loads of different proteins in unboiled wort and they all behave differently, and the range of behaviours can be understood by looking at how proteins respond to temperature in things you might be familiar with outside of brewing:

Some have already unfolded and aggregated in the mash. Indeed, proteins can even unfold and bind to one another at body temperature, and this is important in the aetiology of diseases such as Altzheimers.

Some will unfold but not bind to one another, which is just as well because they are important for head retention and body. Think of the protein collagen, you can simmer a chicken carcass for three hours and end up with a stock that sets in the fridge, because the unfolded collagen sets to form gelatin.

Some will not even unfold. These tend to be proteins that form fibers and have structural roles, like the keratin in your hair and fingernails. Boil away, these things aren't going to change their structure.

Ultimately, however, most proteins have evolved to be stable within the temperature range that the organism experiences and not much more than that, so most of them unfold and aggregate almost immediately. Scrambled eggs is basically a dish of unfolded aggregated protein, so that gives you an idea of the temperature and time it takes for this to happen. In the boil, just like with eggs, short cooking times and high agitation give smaller clumps (agitation with a fork for eggs, with a rolling boil for wort), while longer cooking times and low agitation gives bigger clumps. Most of the hot break material has already formed during the first 15 minutes, and this is all you really need. You might not be able to see the break material, the classic "billowing clouds" just under the surface of the wort, because the aggregates are smaller, but they are there and they are big enough to be pulled down by gravity one the wort is chilled. After a 90 minute boil, all of the proteins with a molecular weight > 100,000 will drop out, and about half with MW < 5000 will drop out. Sure, longer boils get more protein out. You will get more protein dropping out of a six hour boil than a three hour boil, but you get diminishing returns - after the first 15 minutes, you are basically done.
 

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