Barone
Active Member
I'm curious to hear from folks who don't use the top plate in their BZ gen 4 . What do you do instead to get an even distribution of recirculating wort over the grain bed?
Brewzilla Gen 4 advice and experiences
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RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
Not a brewzilla user but on my all in one I've started using this and it's great.
The mash manifold in the pictures when flowing causes no splashing and its basically submerged in a few cm of wort.
Just chipping in really as I have yet to use mine but I will not use the top plate for mashing however for sparging I will be using it, at least for my first brew. My thinking is that for mashing the wort is recycled many times over the grain bed and with the plate compaction in my view will be a possibility but the sparge liquor only goes over once so after mashing out sparging with the plate in place should not be a problem as the liquor only goes through once and the grains should flow a bit better after a mash out.
I have just given mine a heat up and wash with 10L of water which took 15 mins to go from 8.6C to 72.5C at full power. I am not at all impressed with the fit of the false bottom which is ridiculously tight and bent out of shape already and also the temperature shown is out by a couple of degrees at 70C so looks like it needs calibrated... I find it hard to be impressed so far to be honest!
I just had a bit of a weird brew day with my BZ4, and I'm not even sure if this was a problem of the BZ4.
The pump kept blocking, a lot, and the temperature was crazy all over the place. When I finally finished the mash, I pulled the grain basket up and found the wort to be running incredibly slowly through the grain, if at all. Usually gravity does it's job, and it instantly starts falling through, but I had to stir the grain to get it to fall. This was my third brew, and this is the first time it happened. I now realise the pump blocking wasn't blocking at all, but actually due to a lack of wort to pump falling below the grain bed. The temperature variation was probably due to the lack of wort down by the temp sensor as well. I still managed to keep a constant temperature within the grain bed however, based on my external thermometer, and achieved 78% BH efficiency.
Has this happened to anybody else before? I used rice hulls within the mash and so expected more flow within it, and there was nothing particularly different about the grind. Very strange.
The pump kept blocking, a lot, and the temperature was crazy all over the place. When I finally finished the mash, I pulled the grain basket up and found the wort to be running incredibly slowly through the grain, if at all. Usually gravity does it's job, and it instantly starts falling through, but I had to stir the grain to get it to fall. This was my third brew, and this is the first time it happened. I now realise the pump blocking wasn't blocking at all, but actually due to a lack of wort to pump falling below the grain bed. The temperature variation was probably due to the lack of wort down by the temp sensor as well. I still managed to keep a constant temperature within the grain bed however, based on my external thermometer, and achieved 78% BH efficiency.
Has this happened to anybody else before? I used rice hulls within the mash and so expected more flow within it, and there was nothing particularly different about the grind. Very strange.
Was the pump working at full speed? Or had you throttled it with the ball valve / pump percentage setting?
I think stirring regularly is a good idea anyway.
I go with a very thin mash so haven't had this problem, but what was your grain to water ratio out of interest ?
This seems strange . Did you have anything unusual in the grist eg. wheat? I actually find this worrying because the heaters will have been heating the bottom of the kettle even when it may have been short of liquid. It sound like the grains were compacted did you have the top plate on during the mash? I personally would not do that because I feel that would lead to compaction of the grain bed. I think it is a good idea to stir the mash to be honest but it really should not be obligatory.
I have not had a chance to use mine as yet due to injury but hope to try it next week. I use a course grain crush at about 1.4 mm this lets the wort flow well with my S40 so I am hoping the same will happen with the Bz 4.
The mash thickness was 3.8 l/kg.
I don't think my grist was particularly weird - pale ale (59.5%), vienna (18%), munich (12%), and cara 50 (10.5%). I can't remember where I got this from, I'm fairly sure it was online I found it somewhere, and just changed the hop additions.
I initially had the top plate on, but then took it off about 20 minutes into the mash.
I stirred it a lot. I've learned that stirring the mash is quite important in a BZ4 to achieve a good efficiency.
It was a recipe I got through GetErBrewed custom recipe kit creator, and I've never had problems with their crushed grain before.
So yeah, it's really quite strange because there's nothing I can see that would have caused this, unless it was the recipe?
I don't think my grist was particularly weird - pale ale (59.5%), vienna (18%), munich (12%), and cara 50 (10.5%). I can't remember where I got this from, I'm fairly sure it was online I found it somewhere, and just changed the hop additions.
I initially had the top plate on, but then took it off about 20 minutes into the mash.
I stirred it a lot. I've learned that stirring the mash is quite important in a BZ4 to achieve a good efficiency.
It was a recipe I got through GetErBrewed custom recipe kit creator, and I've never had problems with their crushed grain before.
So yeah, it's really quite strange because there's nothing I can see that would have caused this, unless it was the recipe?
It is odd but for me it points to grain crush and or possible compacted grain bed. There is no doubt that stirring does help but if you do this let the grains settle for a bit before you restart the pump. I am begining to wonder why I bought the Bz now my GF S40 works really well but does suffer from temperature over shoots... now I find the Bz does exactly the same
One thing about the S40 though is that the malt basket is much wider than the Bz and the reciculated wort seems to flow really well through it because of the greater area one assumes ? What was the mass of the grain bill? Say it was 5kg you have a fair amount of liquid (15kg) pushing on the top plate at the start of the recirc . I use 2.7L/kg so have 5kg less and sparge later.
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I've only used mine once (planning second go tomorrow) and my mash was quite thick too but circulation never stopped and temperature was stable. I'm planning on a more liquid mash tomorrow.
I think most of the problems with the BZ4 are user created infact if you spend some time getting to understand how it works it can be used with very little problems.
The one with the stuck mash is probably down to crush of the grain or maybe the settling of the sack in transit, that I can only guess as the user did not say how it was crushed etc.
Now overshoots is usually down to not throttling the heating element down to 40% or less during mash as a element on full power does not stop heating even when power is no longer there it will hold the heat and carry on transmitting this heat for quite a while which will create a overshoot.
I use the lower power on the mash and have used cornflakes and rice together with standard grain and after a couple of stirs after the initial doughing in it will settle to a pretty good stable temp, also the BZ4 has a smaller amount of wort in the deadspace than most so it is critical to get a good mash flow through or this will create hotspots.
I have also found that the BHE is better with the BZ4 than my previous AIO getting at least a 5% increase and sometimes more.
My one piece of advice for all BZ4 users is to get the Rapt temp controller so that you are measuring the mash and not the deadspace wort temp which is what most other AIO's do I see this as a major improvement in mashing temps
The one with the stuck mash is probably down to crush of the grain or maybe the settling of the sack in transit, that I can only guess as the user did not say how it was crushed etc.
Now overshoots is usually down to not throttling the heating element down to 40% or less during mash as a element on full power does not stop heating even when power is no longer there it will hold the heat and carry on transmitting this heat for quite a while which will create a overshoot.
I use the lower power on the mash and have used cornflakes and rice together with standard grain and after a couple of stirs after the initial doughing in it will settle to a pretty good stable temp, also the BZ4 has a smaller amount of wort in the deadspace than most so it is critical to get a good mash flow through or this will create hotspots.
I have also found that the BHE is better with the BZ4 than my previous AIO getting at least a 5% increase and sometimes more.
My one piece of advice for all BZ4 users is to get the Rapt temp controller so that you are measuring the mash and not the deadspace wort temp which is what most other AIO's do I see this as a major improvement in mashing temps
I always run the pump at 100% so as the pump is not pulsing on and off which I would think will shorten the life of the pump long term, however I do throttle it back with the ball valve if needed while mashing but try to run it at full if possible the amount of throttling will give you a indication of the grain bed flow as the more you have to throttle it the slower the run through.
If it is too slow I will give it a stir, I also suggest to not let the silicon tubing free flow into the grainbed as it will bury itself and this too can cause issues with the grain bed filtering.
I use a homemade spray head which is held above the mash to spread the flow out so as the mash can settle better - I do not use the top mash plate either as this can compact the bed sometimes too
If it is too slow I will give it a stir, I also suggest to not let the silicon tubing free flow into the grainbed as it will bury itself and this too can cause issues with the grain bed filtering.
I use a homemade spray head which is held above the mash to spread the flow out so as the mash can settle better - I do not use the top mash plate either as this can compact the bed sometimes too
I had it 100%, and I tried playing around with the ball lock at different levels to see if it had any impact (it didn't). It kept making a weird sounding noise, which makes me think that was it trying to pump wort when there was no wort to pump. But also, it might have just been getting blocked because after blowing into it, I'd get a rush of wort through. It sounds likely to have been due to the grind of the grain, which is annoying because I've never had these issues before with grain from GEB. The pump is definitely working fine as well, because I was able to use it perfectly okay with whirlpooling.
As with the temp control, I used this brew to test out some advice I saw from The Home Brew Network on Youtube. Basically keep the element at 40-55%, not using the PID, and stir regularly. I've seen this same advice from multiple others as well, so it was very frustrating to see it not working. Although then like I said, the actual temperature in the middle of the mash seemed to stay pretty consistent. I think I'll get myself one of the RAPT thermometers as there is such a difference between the one at the bottom and the middle of the grain bed.
As with the temp control, I used this brew to test out some advice I saw from The Home Brew Network on Youtube. Basically keep the element at 40-55%, not using the PID, and stir regularly. I've seen this same advice from multiple others as well, so it was very frustrating to see it not working. Although then like I said, the actual temperature in the middle of the mash seemed to stay pretty consistent. I think I'll get myself one of the RAPT thermometers as there is such a difference between the one at the bottom and the middle of the grain bed.
Any change you'd be able to share how you made this? I've been looking around for something to use to distribute reciculated wort better.
I also use GEB malt and haven't had an issue so far. It wasn't marked as double crushed (one of the three options they have)?
As above, I would definitely reduce the flow rate.
I've found the separate thermometer to be useful. With the PID settings properly calibrated, it holds to within a 0.2c of target which is more accurate than is necessary really.
As above, I would definitely reduce the flow rate.
I've found the separate thermometer to be useful. With the PID settings properly calibrated, it holds to within a 0.2c of target which is more accurate than is necessary really.
I made a simple a spray head out of a turkeybaster bulb the thing that you squeeze to suck up the wort into it to get a sample.
You can purchase sprayheads meant for the job but I just happened to have a old baster bulb lying around and just drilled some holes in it which I then attach to the silcone hose and suspend it above the grain bed
You can purchase sprayheads meant for the job but I just happened to have a old baster bulb lying around and just drilled some holes in it which I then attach to the silcone hose and suspend it above the grain bed
I found the water/grain mash ratio in the profile editing bit of Brewfather so I've changed it to be a 'wetter' mash. See how it goes tomorrow with my Cali Common.
I going to continue with the PID on during the mash as it worked fine with me (already got the RAPT probe
)This is pretty genius. I've got one lying somewhere as well so I'll give that a shot. It shouldn't be hard to suspend it through the hole in the lid as well.
How did you manage to calibrate the PID? I've had a look but I've got no idea what any of the abbreviations are. Was there a particular video or post that spells it out for idiots?
Yes, there's a video specifically about this on the Kegland youtube page on how to set up the PID function. It does a good job of explaining the relevant settings. I think I also used a David Heath video on youtube which was helpful. It was then a little trial and error with water, raising the temp 5c at a time, changing one of the perimeters and then adjusting a little as needed. This makes it sounds more involved then actually required though. It only needs to be within a range, so I didn't actually need to mess about with it until in was within 0.2c, but couldn't help it in the end!
Barone
Active Member
In the BZ 35 lt gen4...make full volume...without washing the grains...you must consider the dead space in the pan ?
First thing I did was buy the RAPT temp controlor/ thermometer simply because that was how I got round my S40 over shoots. As has been said you have to understand how these systems work, and they are all the same more or less. In my opinion the temp at the top is the one you want to watch most but you do have to play it off against the bottom to some degree that together with a high flow rate through the grains is the secret. The thing with the Bz gen 4 is that unlike the S40 you can get the energy input lower still to control over shoots better. Gash has done a great deal of experimenting with his set up and it is worthwhile viewing his videos .
I hope to use mine for the first time next week if I do I will report my brew day experience.
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