Brewzilla V4 - Centre drain = ALL the Trub..

[PeterBrau]

Hi all - First post :-)
I've just done my 3rd batch with the Brewzilla V4, great bit of kit but I am having trouble with trub.
Basically due to the way it's built with the conical bottom and centre drain, even with the false bottom catching a good amount of hop bits and break material + whirlpool, I still end up with a large amount of crud transferring to the fermenter.

Or am I doing this wrong? Should I transfer to a 2nd container while cooling (I use a counter-flow, so I don't get a cold-break till it's already in the fermenter) then from that to the fermenter once it's settled a bit?

Or... it it a non-issue?
(I brew mostly Lagers, Pilsner, light IPAs, then keg not bottle - the 1st 2 with the BZ have had quite persistent light haze)

 

[Rwilts]

Interesting question , sorry I can't assist but as a gen 3.1.1 user who was jealous of the bottom drain of the 4 (seeing all the wort left behind always brings a tear ) I suppose the consequence of being able to drain 100% is that it brings anything in suspension with it.. the litre or two left after transfer for me has plenty of hop matter.

 

[Agentgonzo]

You could make/get an in-line filter?

 

[foxy]

Hi all - First post :-)
I've just done my 3rd batch with the Brewzilla V4, great bit of kit but I am having trouble with trub.
Basically due to the way it's built with the conical bottom and centre drain, even with the false bottom catching a good amount of hop bits and break material + whirlpool, I still end up with a large amount of crud transferring to the fermenter.

Or am I doing this wrong? Should I transfer to a 2nd container while cooling (I use a counter-flow, so I don't get a cold-break till it's already in the fermenter) then from that to the fermenter once it's settled a bit?

Or... it it a non-issue?
(I brew mostly Lagers, Pilsner, light IPAs, then keg not bottle - the 1st 2 with the BZ have had quite persistent light haze)

If you have your unit on the floor as is what seems to be the trend then you will have to suck it up. Putting your unit on a stand and either using a siphon or a tap then you can have control of what goes into the fermenter.
I am a firm believer in clear wort into the fermenter, clear beer out.

 

[Brewnaldo]

My experience of trub and hop matter is that its the first thing to fall out. I've always been under the impression that it's how well the yeast falls out that determines beer clarity.

The one thing I would add to that is that since I started adding water salts, the clarity of my beer has been greatly improved.

FWIW I drain my veer from my boiler via a hop spider into my FV. It's usually fairly clear but I do allow a fair bit of crud to hit that hop spider in order to not leave too much wort in the boiler

 

[Gerryjo]

My experience of trub and hop matter is that its the first thing to fall out. I've always been under the impression that it's how well the yeast falls out that determines beer clarity.

The one thing I would add to that is that since I started adding water salts, the clarity of my beer has been greatly improved.

FWIW I drain my veer from my boiler via a hop spider into my FV. It's usually fairly clear but I do allow a fair bit of crud to hit that hop spider in order to not leave too much wort in the boiler

I have the 3.1.1 and when transferring I use the pump with a fine sieve recirculated a few times to clear as much matter away whilst it's around 80° then transfer to the fermenter which chilled as there is always grain slipping through and use a hop bag to reduce hop particulates.

 

[The Baron]

I do not understand how the V4 works fully, if it has a conical bottom with a drain would you do a whirlpool and let the trub settle in the bottom of the conical and let the first runnings which should be trub run and then throw it away if you wanted clearer wort into the FV or have I misunderstood

 

[hoppyscotty]

I do not understand how the V4 works fully, if it has a conical bottom with a drain would you do a whirlpool and let the trub settle in the bottom of the conical and let the first runnings which should be trub run and then throw it away if you wanted clearer wort into the FV or have I misunderstood

It has a false bottom so in theory hops and trub should be filtered out....but alas, false bottom are rarely perfectly effective....assuming you have small enough perforations then you usually find they are not sufficiently sealed around their edges so hops and trub are just sucked around the edge of the false bottom which is my biggest bugbear of the BZ 3.1. The FB on my SS brewtech 3v mash tun sits on a step at the bottom of the vessel on a seal and works much much better.

 

[Rwilts]

It has a false bottom so in theory hops and trub should be filtered out....but alas, false bottom are rarely perfectly effective....assuming you have small enough perforations then you usually find they are not sufficiently sealed around their edges so hops and trub are just sucked around the edge of the false bottom which is my biggest bugbear of the BZ 3.1. The FB on my SS brewtech 3v mash tun sits on a step at the bottom of the vessel on a seal and works much much better.

Do you still use have the extra fine screen ? Just remember that I ditched it very early on over concerns of stuck sparge . But two years later maybe my processes are better and I will dig it out and try it again next brew day.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I haven't got a v4, still on a v3.1 but the fine screen is in the malt pipe and not the kettle section false bottom. I've been trying to think of ways to modify the kettle false bottom for some time now but think it really needs some serious modification to do a proper job, or a custom designed false bottom.

I do use the fine mesh screen in the malt pipe and found I have no issues with it. I also have attached a short bazooka filter to the small metal piece that sits on the overflow tube so I can push the overflow tube down into the mash and prevent grain dropping into the over flow tube. I find running some overflow improves efficiency and ultimate fermentation attenuation as the mash temperature control is much better since you don't have wort sat on top of the grain cooling down before it flows through the grain bed cooling the grain temp down thereby kicking in the heating...and the on/off thermostatic control on the v3.1 sin't too sophisticated and you get temp swings as it chases the set temperature. By running overflow I get really nice and consistent mash temps through the entire mash and the elements are not kicking in and out all the time. No surprise to me that in the v4 and all the latest AIO systems they have forced the overflow by having perforations up the height of the malt pipe to achieve just this effect.

I always whirlpool following the boil as it works well to gather hops in a cone on the FB minimising the amount of hops that get past the edge of the FB.

 

[Rwilts]

I haven't got a v4, still on a v3.1 but the fine screen is in the malt pipe and not the kettle section false bottom. I've been trying to think of ways to modify the kettle false bottom for some time now but think it really needs some serious modification to do a proper job, or a custom designed false bottom.

I do use the fine mesh screen in the malt pipe and found I have no issues with it. I also have attached a short bazooka filter to the small metal piece that sits on the overflow tube so I can push the overflow tube down into the mash and prevent grain dropping into the over flow tube. I find running some overflow improves efficiency and ultimate fermentation attenuation as the mash temperature control is much better since you don't have wort sat on top of the grain cooling down before it flows through the grain bed cooling the grain temp down thereby kicking in the heating...and the on/off thermostatic control on the v3.1 sin't too sophisticated and you get temp swings as it chases the set temperature. By running overflow I get really nice and consistent mash temps through the entire mash and the elements are not kicking in and out all the time. No surprise to me that in the v4 and all the latest AIO systems they have forced the overflow by having perforations up the height of the malt pipe to achieve just this effect.

I always whirlpool following the boil as it works well to gather hops in a cone on the FB minimising the amount of hops that get past the edge of the FB.

Thanks. I am on a 3.1.1 also. Forgot it was in malt pipe not FB .

Interesting thoughts on the overflow. I deleted mine a long time ago. Maybe I will reinstate and try your method.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Go on, there are many people out there who have deleted the overflow pipe and still get great if not better results. The way the new grainfathers works is you have a very high flow but you have the perforations down the side of the malt pipe so I think what they're trying to aim for here is keeping the grain in suspension in the wort as much as possible to enable good flow through the grain bed. I think the typical view of the wort takes 'path of least resistance' and will 'choose' go always avoid the grain bed and go down the overflow is not what's happening in reality. The flow rate through the grain bed will be consistent and whatever goes down the overflow (or through the malt pipe perforations) is excess and its still beneficial to have this excess overflow to help with consistent temps through the wort and grain column. Not sure if my thinking is spot on here but just trying to reverse engineer the thinking behind the design. The overflow pipe was put there deliberately and serves a specific function so I always try to operate things in the way the designers intended them to work.

 

[Gerryjo]

I ditched the malt pipe and plugged the hole as well as the fine mesh as grain at a fine crush always escapes no matter what so I recirculate after mashing whilst heating then again if I'm doing a hopstand or whirlpool through a big sieve and does save a lot of hassle.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I used to use a hop spider to filter wort as I transferred into the fermenter and create some aeration and I never got as much flour or grain matter as that trapped in the hop spider. In fact I captures so little stuff I no longer bother. Grain crush probably has alot to do with this.

 

[Gerryjo]

I'm just wrapping up a brew day the second of the new year so far cooled and in the fermenter but look at how much **** I caught although I did double crush my grain and and gained a few points

 

[Gerryjo]

And look what's at the bottom of the Brewzilla

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I'm using a Guten, basically same as the pre series 4 all in ones.
This has side not central drain hole and flat bottom and no false bottom.
I whirlpool through the tap hole and made a trubtrapper out of mesh and silicone gasket to catch hop trub.
Works very well.

 

[hoppyscotty]

And look what's at the bottom of the Brewzilla
View attachment 81174View attachment 81175

Well you can see the massive gap around the edge of the Brewzilla false bottom. Mine is the same and it’s a real design flaw. Having said that you’re getting a lot of fine grain flour which I don’t seem to get. I’m not crushing my own grain so get what I get from the supplier but don’t get anywhere near that amount of grain flour coming through. I’ve always assumed the finer bits of husk and flour get dumped on top of the grain from the recirculating as the wort clears through the mash.

Maybe sacrifice a bit of efficieny and go for a coarser crush? Or just use your sieve filter, it seems to work well.

 

[Gerryjo]

Well you can see the massive gap around the edge of the Brewzilla false bottom. Mine is the same and it’s a real design flaw. Having said that you’re getting a lot of fine grain flour which I don’t seem to get. I’m not crushing my own grain so get what I get from the supplier but don’t get anywhere near that amount of grain flour coming through. I’ve always assumed the finer bits of husk and flour get dumped on top of the grain from the recirculating as the wort clears through the mash.

Maybe sacrifice a bit of efficieny and go for a coarser crush? Or just use your sieve filter, it seems to work well.

It's certainly a design flaw and the sieve works as it's recirculating though not struck on the thermostat as with a very fine crush my temp was out by nearly 10° but have a probe that's calibrated regularly.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Yeah the thermostat can have its ‘moments’ I used to react to it and get myself tied up in knots overshooting and undershooting fighting the thermostat chasing the target temp but just leave it now and it does settle 5 or so mins into the mash. I do run an overflow during recirculating which helps to regulate temperature I think.