Carbonation in bottles without secondary fermentation

[daveb]

Hi i was wondering if its possible to achieve some form of reasonable carbonation in bottles without employing the normal live yeast/secondary fermentation bottle conditioned method?...or am i wasting my time even thinking about it?....

Am new to home-brewed beers and my first beer will be getting brewed this week and WILL be bottle conditioned (using some chimay blue live yeast that i will make a starter from)...i hope to achieve 8-9% Abv and hope the chimay blue yeast will be ok at that high Abv.....am using two Brewmaker IPA kits, extra dried malt and extra hops...am not expecting much but i like the idea of experimenting and giving it a go.....

But i was hoping in the near future to make some extreme high ABV % alcohol beers such as imperial stouts and super imperial IPA's etc....i can use HIGH abv tolerant yeasts from the Alcotec 23% Turbo Yeast range to ferment any future beers... i don't know how the yeast will perform using just maltose as they are designed to use glucose and yeast nutrient only!..but i have used them to make home made wine up to17% Abv without any problems..so am sure it will get me up to 15-17% Abv in a beer home brew.....but then i wont be able to bottle condition that beer as the yeast will have reached its alcohol tolerance.

Has anyone used these yeasts for beer?...or has anyone managed to carbonate their bottles without secondary in-bottle fermentation?....i know i will prob ditch the bottles in the future but i have recently purchased and drunk my way through 50 Grolsch Lager flip top bottles!..so am kinda fixated on them at the mo ...and i do love the idea of using separate bottles to keep my fin beer in!...i can give my mates a few, take em out the house if i visit a friend or even store some for maturation for a year or two...

Any help in any of my above points would be great and much appreciated!

 

[Dunfie]

I cannot answer your questions on the high alcohol yeast or the strong kit concoction. However I have used the Chimay Blue yeast before - when I recovered it from the bottle it took as age to get going but once it did it was fine and it stepped up without any problems.

As for the carbonation without secondary? My first question is why are you wanting to avoid this - is it to avoid the yeast deposit on the bottom of the bottle?

However, it you don't want to add any priming sugar then you do have some options:
1, Bottle and be prepared to wait a long time - it should eventually come into condition (although could take months/years).
2, Bottle a couple of gravity points above final gravity. This is a bit dodgy unless you are confident that you know the gravity that your beer will drop to. Don't bottle too early or you might end up with bottle bombs.
3, Carbonate in a cornie keg and then fill the bottles using a counter pressure bottle filler (some relatively expensive kit involved).

Also there is no need to introduce more yeast as even in clear unfiltered beer there is enough yeast in suspension to create the carbonation required once you have introduced some priming sugar. Brewers who produce bottle conditioned beers often filter and then use a different yeast for secondary - this is often for cosmetic reasons as the yeast employed sticks to the bottom of the bottle.

 

[Baz Chaz]

Funnily enough I've just bottled my latest brew this morning :idea: before I put the sugar solution in (I batch prime) I bottled half a dozen without any priming sugar to see how it goes, the rest had only 60g for the remainder of the 23 ltr batch instead of my normal 80g :hmm: will just have to wait and see now

Not quite an answer to the question, but will see what happens in a few months :thumb:

 

[daveb]

Thanks for the replies..i guess i was hoping to fully exploit the potential High ABV of one of the turbo yeast range and attempt to ferment as high as ABV as is possible......i realise that i could bottle a couple of gravity points above final gravity as mentioned if i knew what this final gravity would be and then go the bottle conditioned route.

My rather (prob crazy!) thinking was to play it safe..fully ferment out the beer under optimum conditions in the barrel until the max ABV was reached...then let it completely clear after racking etc then bottle an impressive (wishful thinking prob!) ultra imperial stout High Abv beer and add some carbonation at the same time then seal and leave a few weeks/mths before tasting/drinking..... this way i could achieve max alcohol from the yeast...(i just fancy trying to do a brewdog style crazy ott mad beer and give a few to my mad friends who unfortunately dont live near to me but i could easily post a bottle or two).

I have even looked at using chemical methods of co2 production to prime beer in the bottle, like mixing citric acid with calcium carbonate or other similar chemicals but after looking at the resultant chemistry it would prob ruin the beer as most produce water. co2 and a resultant new chemical like Calcium Citrate ......Citric Acid + Calcium Carbonate = Calcium Citrate + Carbon dioxide + Water. !...yes i am quite mad!... :lol: ...

Maybe if i pressurised the refrigerated near freezing cooled cleared beer in a cornie at near or just below freezing temp then quickly transferred the carbonated chilled beer to chilled bottles and sealed straight away would this leave enough residual dissolved co2 left in the beer to make it worthwhile?....or am i wasting my time and better at forgetting this crazy idea...as i dont even have a cornie or the co2 equip/bottle yet so i dont know... :hmm:

In fact the more i think about all this the more mad and daft it sounds... :lol:

I think i will just lower my ABV and bottle condition like everyone else its less hassle lol....soz for the daft question and thank you all for your replies...

 

[daveb]

I think this answers my questions ....all i need now is a cheap corni and some tubing and a co2 bottle!

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-n ... gun-24678/