Commercial vs Home brew fermentation times

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peebee

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What is the definition of 'making' here? Brew day, end of fermentation or casked and fined? The former looks very optimistic, the latter could push the process past 2 weeks.
Humm ... my bad choice of words (intending to make it clear!). "Brew-day" (i.e. very optimistic!) sounds better doesn't it (but then as I'm talking commercial, every day can be "brew-day").
 

Sadfield

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Humm ... my bad choice of words (intending to make it clear!). "Brew-day" (i.e. very optimistic!) sounds better doesn't it (but then as I'm talking commercial, every day can be "brew-day").

Bad? It's a choice of words, which highlights the ambiguity when in making comparisons between brewers, when fermentation and conditioning overlap. In terms of yeast getting from OG to FG, I see the same as you observe, and what commercials see, a 2-4 day time frame. The difference is homebrewed beer doesn't leave the brewery, so the extra conditioning time is visible.
 
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I tried my bitter after 4 days, it's done fermenting but stinks of sulfur. I am very wary of cold crashing it. I do think the yeast do some clean up. I'll try it again after a week and see if it's gone. It could be yeast dependent even within ales and lagers.
 

Paul7189

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Did they mention if they ferment under pressure at all? Can increase temperature and it also ferments faster in a pressurised fermenter. And as others have said the yeast will be already going wild before it even touches the wort!
 

Sadfield

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I'm not convinced by this 'yeast is already going wild' argument. Pitch rates are pitch rates, it doesn't matter where the yeast has come from as long as one is pitching the correct amount of viable yeast. The bulk of fermentation is the exponential growth phase of yeast. If you've made a sufficient starter or hydrated the correct amount of dry yeast* and aerated your wort, then you should be at the same point as a commercial brewery.


*or not hydrated if you follow current yeast technology.
 
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An Ankoù

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I tried my bitter after 4 days, it's done fermenting but stinks of sulfur. I am very wary of cold crashing it. I do think the yeast do some clean up. I'll try it again after a week and see if it's gone. It could be yeast dependent even within ales and lagers.
I used to get that all the time, @Pennine. Started adding half a teaspoonful of yeast nutrient to every brew and I've never had it since.
 

Weizenberg

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I used to get that all the time, @Pennine. Started adding half a teaspoonful of yeast nutrient to every brew and I've never had it since.
That means it's done fermting (FG is stable) and now needs an appropriate time conditioning.

You can speed it up slightly by adding fresh yeast when transferring to another vessel. (Quite a few brewers practice this).
 

peebee

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I tried my bitter after 4 days, it's done fermenting but stinks of sulfur. I am very wary of cold crashing it. I do think the yeast do some clean up. I'll try it again after a week and see if it's gone. It could be yeast dependent even within ales and lagers.
I don't suffer much from sulphury ferments. They have occasionally occurred but at an ignorable level. But "four days"? I've never tried to drink my beer that early (7 or 8 days perhaps, apart from sips as ongoing Quality Control!). I think @Weizenberg answered that issue.

++++++++++++++++++++++

I liked the article @Sadfield posted. Suggested the attributes of the yeasts I often use all go together; high speed, lowish attenuation (shy of "malt-triose" sugars), fast clearing, most of which makes them unpopular these days, but they suit me (I generally dislike cold, flinty, thin, and fizzy beers ... and the term "cold-crashing" turns my stomach, give me reconstituted fish guts, isinglass, any day).

Sorry, I mentioned earlier that I'd previously found the yeast in my current brew a bit slow (MJ's M36 "Liberty Bell") but that's one I'm only just trying, it was M44 ("US West Coast") I'd normally use in this particular beer. But I've jinxed the M36 now and it's acting much like the M44 (after 36 hours it's only cleared 15 gravity units, the S-33 in my graphed example above had done over 30 units in that time). Could of course be Mangrove Jack only give you a paltry 10g, not 11.5g like others?

But, as @Sadfield said "pitching the correct amount of viable yeast" is probably the key to speed of fermentation. Use adequate in-date dried yeast (although my S-33 in the graph above was two months past it!) and I always use a starter and pitch calculator for liquid yeasts (no "smack, chuck it in, and cross your fingers" for me). If using my small fermenter (30L) I never bother aerating (dried yeast is packed with enough products created with oxygen before it is dried, and so has liquid yeast if fresh out of an agitated starter with access to air/O2); but I keep the OG below 1.050 to get away with that.
 
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IceQueen

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You are right the large towering fermenting vessels do have agitators constantly stirring the wort, but the reason is to relieve the hydro static pressure on the yeast.

That might be true, never read into that part. But the yeast stir needs to be done for some of the measurements. You need an even concentration after all.

Also as others have said the commercials will be sure of the viability of the yeast.
Microscope and a hand full of other tools, tests and chemicals including.

Methelane blue is easy enough to come by (i think) and that will tell you how much is roughly alive.

you just need to find the info :) (at least on an non disclosure level)

 

Weizenberg

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Microscope and a hand full of other tools, tests and chemicals including.

Methelane blue is easy enough to come by (i think) and that will tell you how much is roughly alive.

What works well for me is to propagate the liquid yeast about 3 times and adjust for the age of the initial seed culture.

Given how expensive they are nowadays (and sometimes difficult to come by), I'm beginning to experiment banking my own on slants.
 
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Regarding mixing during fermentation, and as evidence of being daft about brewing, I watched this - it's a fairly cool piece of kit by the looks of things too that looks like it would save quite a bit of time. One for @The-Engineer-That-Brews to 3D print at homebrew level!

Fortunately, we as home brewers will never need anything to agitate the fermenting wort. The yeast can do it themselves from the exothermic energy they produce.
 

scomet

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A modern large scale commercial brewery has more in common with a chemical plant than what one would perceive as a ‘brewery’. Fermentation is measured in days and the wort is fermented to ~12%abv then blended with soda water to the desired level which can produce 2 or even 3 different products from a single mash. The ‘yeast room’ is as tight as a bio-hazard facility with only a handful of people allowed access. The soda water can be made using reclaimed C02 from the fermentation process which is believed to produce better beer during ‘blending’.

At home I blend Coopers Stout with my home bitter it gives a cracking tasting beer - Cheers.
 

Jim Brewster

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the wort is fermented to ~12%abv then blended with soda water to the desired level

That's true of the massive lager brewing companies. The cask beer producing breweries don't do it like that but fermentation times are still very short compared to the home-brewing convention of 2 weeks fermentation, which as mentioned here is probably longer than necessary except for kit brews which is probably where the 2 weeks rule of thumb originated.
 

Weizenberg

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I can ask the chap again. He's a British brew master and he put the best cask of Landlords on I had my entire life.

Maybe it was Guinness for all export (not just UK)? He made the point that they were substantially different for the local Irish vs Export market.

Theyll probably tell you how fast they can make it. Sounded like they were rather proud.
 

Weizenberg

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