Craft Beer vs Real Ale

[morethanworts]

With the swathe of commercial beers labelled 'craft' at the moment, however good much of it currently is, has the brewing industry given itself a get-out (and ultimately disputable) term for a supposedly superior product, which is starting to replace the more easily definable term 'real ale'?

It's a bit like the term 'Farmhouse' sausages, or 'Farmhouse' bread, which I believe is not a regulated word in advertising. It often is used for a slightly higher quality product, but not always.

I don't know where CAMRA stands on this, having to adapt to what is perhaps an American term now widely being used over here, but should we all concede that it is possible to have perfectly good beer that may have been force carbonated, or does 'real ale' remain the best indication that a beer is likely to be pretty good?

The scene seems healthy at the moment, but with some of the big boys now jumping on the 'craft' bandwagon, you have to wonder whether it has just muddied waters that had cleared a lot in recent years.

 

[chrig]

I love a pint of real ale, but I couldn't give a stuff about "Real Ale".

 

[calumscott]

Some craft brewers have been pushing for an actual definition of the term. So far nothing.

But that's the problem, you define it and the big boys will do something that just scrapes in with the minimum of quality/care/ingredients and the maximum of marketing budget and we're back to the same problem that "real ale" has. Enterprise, experimentation and innovation get replaced by accountants and marketing dollars and the market gets flooded with "craft" beer from the big boys and the real craft brewers die out.

There is an argument that while it remains undefined it can move, change and evolve way faster than the big brewers can move to keep up thereby keeping it fresh and interesting...

 

[adomant]

Craft brew is a more generic term, a real ale can be considered craft brewed as well as a lager or any other type of beer. Some craft brew is carbonated and dispensed by gas, something that CAMRA have set up a committee to look at but currently don't consider to be real ale.

Green King consider their IPA to be "crafted" which would seem to further generalise the term.

 

[SloeBrewer]

My interpretation of craft brewing, has been that done by small, independent breweries who are creating innovative beers. Of course, now that it's becomeing more popular, all the big boys are hijacking the term.

Whether it comes out of a cask or a keg shouldn't have anything to do with it - leave that to "Real Ale". After all, some craft beer styles have to be served from kegs.

 

[dennisdk2000]

I love a pint of real ale, but I couldn't give a stuff about "Real Ale".

+1

I think that in some ways CAMRA has made things worse, what with their frowning upon cask breathers etc., something that could be useful for smaller pubs to offer a wider choice of ales, but is prohibited by CAMRA guidelines, giving an advantage to bigger businesses.

The big boys are always going to try and take advantage of any emerging market. Defining any marketing term will make it easier for the big boys to exploit it. On the other hand, the big boys are pretty good a picking a word and using in a way that skirts around all marketing laws.

Dennis

 

[dennisking]

I have always preferred the term cask conditioned to real ale although I am guilty of using the second term.

 

[morethanworts]

I have always preferred the term cask conditioned to real ale although I an guilty of using the second term.

I guess it is the massive growth in the range of bottles on supermarket shelves that most vividly highlights the issue for me, more than pub cellars. It's perhaps on those where I see the clearest picture of the changing trends. We know that there will only be yeast in a very tiny proportion of those bottles, but the 'craft beer' is clearly finding an audience that probably regards it just as highly as real ale fans would regard real ale.

It seems unlikely to me that the supermarkets will drive innovation, once they have an established marketing term that lends a premium sounding tone to just about any very highly hopped, straw coloured beer they like. (I know there are other great types, but APA style beers do seem to be at the heart of this).

On the face of it CAMRA has a tough choice, with the risk of becoming almost irrelevant if they stick to their guns. Once an Americanism hits over here, it rarely goes away.

 

[Drunken Horse]

None of the terms can be really be defined. I prefer the term craft beer to real ale but there is nothing anyone can do to stop the big boys using the terms as it not a legal definition and is unlikely to ever be unless the government decide to give tax breaks to small craft brewers. With the term craft beer at least they have to try to make it taste like they have taken their time.

All the supermarket bought craft beers I bought in America tasted good so the label seems to work there. The local craftbeer shop bought ones were great.

On a side note ,as a former member, I believe CAMRA has served its purpose now . You arent going to change the big breweries mentality. I doubt there are many people who havent tried real ale now so the market isnt going to change anymore. Pretty much every traditional pub carries cask ales, and if not the clientele probably dont want it so why should the pub carry what they cant sell.

The snobbery of CAMRA against other alcoholic beverages is a turn off to younger people ( that the bars are trying to get in) and some branches have turned into out right bullies and I've heard of pubs washing their hands of them. CAMRA needs a re think/re inventing if its not to become counter productive.

 

[gl0ckage]

I always thought craft beers were the American term for what we call real ale. But if you notice there's more ales coming in keg format. When I order ale now I'm offered it in a sankey keg that's dispensed like lager, through the chiller etc. This is what I would define craft beer as now.

And I prefer some ales dispensed in this way rather than the cask dispense.

Kegs are useful for smaller pubs as they stay Fresher for longer and no extra hand pulls etc needed.

 

[calumscott]

None of the terms can be really be defined. I prefer the term craft beer to real ale

Real ale is defined, by CAMRA. Craft Beer is not defined.

I always thought craft beers were the American term for what we call real ale.

Nope. Craft beers can be packaged and dispensed in any format. They can be processed any way you like. Real ale has very strict parameters about everything really.

And as you say, that's the point of Craft Beer. It's not always ale for a start and it takes advantage of all the brewing, processing, packaging and dispensing technology available to the modern brewer to produce (and this is the really woolly bit) contemporary, exciting beers of quality.

The point being that it throws off the dogmatic regulations of CAMRA in pursuit of something new, fresh and exciting but retaining a focus on the quality of ingredients, process and most importantly the final product. Paradoxically, the very fact that there are no parameters or constraints leaves it open to abuse from those who seek not to be part of the movement but only to exploit it. And shame on them. Again...

 

[AJ_Rowley]

Being from Ireland we don't really have "real ale" but the craft beer industry is growing in leaps and bounds. And people who are deciding to drink craft beers and enjoy them know what "craft" means. So when they see things like blue moon and Caledonian smooth advertised as craft beers they know these are not craft and stay away from them.

The problem I think comes when people have never tried craft beer and see diageo Heineken and the rest of them marketing their beers as craft they end up not knowing the difference which in turn takes money from from the guys who are truly making good beer.

 

[Drunken Horse]

None of the terms can be really be defined. I prefer the term craft beer to real ale

Real ale is defined, by CAMRA. Craft Beer is not .

Didnt really explain that well. What I meant is that there is absoloutely nothing to stop brewers calling anything they brew as real ale. Its simply who the beers marketing is aimed at that makes them not use it (knowing real ale drinkers will see right through it) and the people who want to drink the likes of fosters arent likely to be interested. Although with Cantona promoting hop growing as a selling point of such a beer maybe that might start to change. Unless of course someone can find a way to make the definitions legally binding.

I think by calling ale/beer craft beer you are holding the quality up for closer scrutiny and breweries have to at least make an effort to make their phish water of a decent quality.

 

[morethanworts]

Sorry to bump this from a week or so back, but I just saw this video... which just about sums up my reservations on the use of the term 'craft beer'.

That cheesy stirring background music in the background, used in no end of soul searching cinematic trailers in recent times. Fingers firmly down throat :sick:

Also saw some interesting thoughts on Zach Avery's BeerBoy pages.

 

[fizz head1982]

Its funny this should come up. I am currently just starting a degree with the OU in Engineering. "Craft" is something that once was as highly classed as Engineering, in the terms that it took going into the unknown, however now virtually anyone can do it with practice and hence it is not cutting edge and is a "craft skill"...

Also crafts are done by skilled labour, Engineering is done by killed thinkers...

So I think this is where the term "craft beer" is coming from, o and America...

And as my favourate lecturer from college would say in his Welsh accent... "But dont worry if you don't understand that cos it's all a load of B*ll*c£s, now who is coming out side for a fag?" :lol:

 

[phettebs]

Here in America, my feeling is that "craft beer" was a way to differentiate from the big three beers like Bud, Miller, and Coors. Back in the early 90s maybe it made sense because there were so few. Now, everything is labeled as craft beer and it really has been diluted. Now, we don't have the concept of real ale here so we aren't competing with that. I think it has lost meaning basically.

 

[Drunken Horse]

Here in America, my feeling is that "craft beer" was a way to differentiate from the big three beers like Bud, Miller, and Coors. Back in the early 90s maybe it made sense because there were so few. Now, everything is labeled as craft beer and it really has been diluted. Now, we don't have the concept of real ale here so we aren't competing with that. I think it has lost meaning basically.

Thats sad to hear, every time I've been the states a trip to the liquor store to see what was in the craft section was always high on my agenda. I was rarely disappointed with what I'd buy.

 

[phettebs]

I'm not trying to imply that the beer selection is bad. It's just that the term "craft beer" has been applied to everything that comes out anymore. The market is saturated with new breweries and beers and I just think that now everything is being labeled as craft. Even the big three are getting sneaky and releasing beers under different brewery names so they can capture some of the craft beer market. I definitely love having a variety from which to choose!

 

[calumscott]

Well, lets just hope that the pioneers of craft beer have a quick direction change so we can crack on with creating and drinking "artisan beer", "etsy beer" or "we're a tiny producer, ha! beer" for a few years until the big boys realise what just happened...

 

[RobWalker]

baz, you're not wrong. most city centre bars are doing a "craft lager" now which is, well, a lager with a small amount of non-lager hops in usually. it's more of a blanket term for a lager with any sort of taste whatsoever.

Apparently CAMRA don't like brewdog - our beer has the yeast killed off and is served cold and under pressure from an external source, which is against how they define real ale - a live product served by its own pressure. or something.

that's the technical part of it as I gather it, but I'm just thankful that good beer is being appreciated these days. there's some really cool places opened up in brum recently and they sell craft beer from genuine independant breweries, as well as imported stuff like belgian beers. just 5 years ago it was pretty hard to get a decent ale in town.