Pre boiling water to remove bicarbonates.

[Bashley]

Hi all, my water is pretty high on bicarbonates (300 ppm) and I like to brew IPAs. I read about pre boiling to remove bicarbonates which would reduce residual alkalinity. I tried last night and it's taken me from 140 residual alkalinity to 50. Although I'm quite happy with that, I'm a little confused as my boiled water is now at 9PH when it was at 7PH before. Shouldn't my 'new' water be more acidic now? I haven't added any other minerals. The test was done using a GH/KH test kit.

 

[lancon]

Use the forum water treatment sheet with your water company water analysis much easier.

 

[Bigcol49]

Use the forum water treatment sheet with your water company water analysis much easier.

Hi!
For me, that's not an option as my water company's analysis is incomplete. I depend on the Salifert kits.

 

[lancon]

when you say its incomplete, what is missing? have you asked them for an analysis? or you could get an analysis from Murphys

 

[chthon]

This is correct, boiling water to remove bicarbonates increases the pH. The reaction not only removes the bicarbonates, but also H+-ions, which increases the pH, and the calcium too.

You will have to add calciumchloride and/or calciumsulfate to get to the mineral content you want. This will also drop your pH again.

 

[Bigcol49]

when you say its incomplete, what is missing? have you asked them for an analysis? or you could get an analysis from Murphys

Hi!
Alkalinity is missing, as is chloride, and without the alkalinity reading it's not very useful. That's why I use the Salifert kits.

 

[Bashley]

This is correct, boiling water to remove bicarbonates increases the pH. The reaction not only removes the bicarbonates, but also H+-ions, which increases the pH, and the calcium too.

You will have to add calciumchloride and/or calciumsulfate to get to the mineral content you want. This will also drop your pH again.

Any idea how much? I'm very new to water treatment and like a few others here, my water report can't be trusted as it comes from various sources. Hence the GH/KH kit.

 

[chthon]

A GH/KH kit is probably only pH and carbonates? You would also need calcium, chloride and sulphate.

 

[Bashley]

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03/07/brewing-water-spreadheet-update/ The speadsheet calculates the other minerals apparently.

 

[chthon]

But you need a water report or an analysis for the calcium, chloride and sulphate. That is not a function of the amount of bicarbonates.

E.g. this is my water, according to the analysis of the water supplier:

Ca	Mg	Cl	SO4	HCO3
47	4	71	100	250

If I would boil it to remove carbonates, I wouldn't get very low, because I have not enough calcium in my water. But the other minerals wouldn't even be affected. And these amounts can have very different values. So, somehow, you need a water report.

The spreadsheet from Braukaiser helps in deciding how your water will affect your beer, and how much acid you might need to adjust the pH of the mash, but it can't help you with the water you start with.

 

[lancon]

Isn't it a legal requirement for the water company to publish water quality? Have you been to the Ofwat page to see which company actually supplies your water, (the company I pay the water bill to aren't the supplier). And looking on my water quality sheet there is no alkalinity, there is chloride however. When I used the HBF water treatment sheet it came up with the same result for AMS.

 

[Bashley]

They have provided me with a water report but here we're given water from different centres so it fluctuates a lot.

 

[lancon]

send a sample of your water to Murphy & Sons, https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/ they will tell you what you need

 

[Slid]

They have provided me with a water report but here we're given water from different centres so it fluctuates a lot.

That sounds awkward if you want to do Water Treatment. In some locations you can be provided with soft water most of the time (basically run off straight from the nearest hills) or sometimes from boreholes which can be hard water. Whereabouts does your supply come from?

 

[strange-steve]

send a sample of your water to Murphy & Sons, https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/ they will tell you what you need

That won't help much if his tap water has various sources.
@Bashley have you considered blending your tap water with a low mineral water like RO or Ashbeck? It'd be much quicker and give more predictable results. If you blended half and half with Ashbeck that would bring your alkalinity down to a much more manageable ~130ppm which could then be reduced as required by adding CRS or lactic acid.

 

[Bashley]

We're in Bordeaux. On this website they often put up the current quality of water - at least once a week. In fairness it doesn't seem to fluctuate that much. However, they don't seem to have a level for the sulfates. https://www.usagers.leau.bordeaux-metropole.fr/eau-dans-ma-commune/BÈGLES-33039/qualite-de-l-eau
Chlorures = chloride

 

[lancon]

have you checked the site of the Ministry of Health which says it has the complete analysis

 

[Bashley]

have you checked the site of the Ministry of Health which says it has the complete analysis

Where does it say that?

 

[Bashley]

I have the complete analysis but as I said it's pointless as I have analysis from 3 different sources.