Pressure fermenting

[Davegase]

Because I gave it a try, this was before the PET fermenters came on the market easy to do and to make from a HDPE cube and using different pressure flow relief valves. Lagers taste nothing like a lager should, the ales were as has been described excellent mouth feel but lacking esters The reason for the better mouth feel is exactly as the master brewer in the video described, pressure makes smaller bubbles. The same reason I prefer bottle conditioned beer as to a keg beer. I have, by accident fermented a beer at higher than the temperature suggested on the packet at one atmosphere and the esters given off by the yeast which was CN-36 an excellent ale yeast at low temperature but the esters are rank at higher temperature.
Why do people do it, simple answer is money. We see all the blogs , and videos about how good it is, all from those with a vested interest in selling equipment needed for a home brewer to carry out closed vessel fermentation. Why don't we see respected writers of homebrew methods jump on the bandwagon of 'pressure fermenting' the reason is they have a reputation to protect. Go on Pro Brewer website, you don't see them banging on about pressure fermenting, except the the way Terri Fahrendorf suggested last couple of points raise the pressure purely to carbonate the beer. So if it really is that good, and a quick turnaround in fermenter time, why don't the pros do it?
As the master brewer on the video says to get the best results for making a beer is to do it low and slow keeping the yeast happy.
I went into a lot of breweries in the Czech Republic it was all open fermentation, went in a lot of breweries in America never saw any signs whatsoever of pressure fermenting. The best thing about the PET fermenters is the ability to partially carbonate the beer, do closed transfers and reduce any oxygen uptake.

Good morning down under, did you think I was referring to you

 

[foxy]

Good morning down under, did you think I was referring to you

Of course you were.

 

[Sadfield]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[foxy]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[Pennine]

Nope. I won't be watching a 2hr video on the off chance there's a weak rebuttal that was too insignificant to highlight.

Nothing you have posted addresses @tommo original question, and is anything more than personal preference.

The two beersmith videos clearly demonstrates that pressure as high as 30psi to not be detrimental to yeast health and performance, and ester control by added pressure is a effective and commercially accepted way of controlling esters. White and Bamforth succinctly answer the original post.

If you want to promote esters ferment open, of you want control or suppress esters ferment under pressure. Different FV and fermentations are tools to achieve desired outcomes.

Not to diverge from the riveting discussion on pressure fermenting. If one were to use a serving tray for an open ferment, do you normally transfer to another container before the Krausen drops? Or do you just cover it after?

 

[Sadfield]

Not to diverge from the riveting discussion on pressure fermenting. If one were to use a serving tray for an open ferment, do you normally transfer to another container before the Krausen drops? Or do you just cover it after?

Normally I transfer to another fv after 3-4 days, depending on how the krausen is looking. Sometimes, if life gets in the way, I'll just cover it. I've also tried, and will do again, the Double Drop technique, where the wort is transfered in less than 24 hrs. As used by Brakspear and others.

https://www.flackmanor.co.uk/about-flack-manor/brewing-process/

 

[Pennine]

Normally I transfer to another fv after 3-4 days, depending on how the krausen is looking. Sometimes, if life gets in the way, I'll just cover it. I've also tried, and will do again, the Double Drop technique, where the wort is transfered in less than 24 hrs. As used by Brakspear and others.

https://www.flackmanor.co.uk/about-flack-manor/brewing-process/

Thanks for that link, I am going to give this a try. I like they idea of dropping out everything but the wort and new yeast.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Are there any anti pressure fermenters out there who have thought of creating some sort of gentle Venturi device to create negative pressure on the fermentation ? If pressure is bad wouldn't negative pressure be good ?
As long as your fermenter doesn't implode !

Brewing at altitude to take advantage in the natural (albeit sight) lower pressure?

 

[MickDundee]

Lagers taste nothing like a lager should,

What do you mean? The only time I’ve ever won a BJCP comp it was with a pressure fermented Helles.

 

[foxy]

What do you mean? The only time I’ve ever won a BJCP comp it was with a pressure fermented Helles.

From what I have been reading about the comps in England hardly ever have a BJCP Certified Judge. Have you got your score sheets handy to post up?

 

[Sadfield]

Are there any anti pressure fermenters out there who have thought of creating some sort of gentle Venturi device to create negative pressure on the fermentation ? If pressure is bad wouldn't negative pressure be good ?
As long as your fermenter doesn't implode !

Fag packet stuff. However, if you take a macro brewery such as Coors as an example, where they have multiple breweries, all brewing the same beer to exact specifications. Their original brewery in Golden Colorado is 1700m higher than their breweries in Albany NY or Trenton NJ that are effectively at sea level. That's 2.7 psi or 0.2 atm difference.

Llasa Brewery at 3650m must make the best beer in the world, with c12 psi less pressure than one at sea level.

 

[MickDundee]

From what I have been reading about the comps in England hardly ever have a BJCP Certified Judge. Have you got your score sheets handy to post up?

Both judges on that comp were BJCP qualified. Are you a qualified judge? What would be the benefit of posting up the score sheets? All that will happen is that you will tell me the judges were wrong.

Are you going to tell me why it didn’t taste like a lager?

 

[foxy]

Both judges on that comp were BJCP qualified. Are you a qualified judge? What would be the benefit of posting up the score sheets? All that will happen is that you will tell me the judges were wrong.

Are you going to tell me why it didn’t taste like a lager?

Quite simple really, people enter BJCP competitions but it doesn’t mean the beers will be judged by certified judges. The score sheets will have the judges ID number on the top right hand corner. The biggest problem is a lot of brewers start brewing and before they really get to grips and master the art they jump to pressure fermenting. Patience is a virtue in producing fine lagers and ales. So some brewers before they do get to grips with making a really good lager or ale get on the bandwagon of pressure fermenting and not having made a decent beer traditionally only have their sub standard beers to compare it to. A decent lager, Pilsner cannot be expected to be fast tracked and still resemble one that has been made low and slow as the German Master Brewer put it.

 

[Sadfield]

BJCP competitions but it doesn’t mean the beers will be judged by certified judges.

It means exactly that. BJCP means exactly that, it's the Beer Judges Certification Program. FFS!

https://www.bjcp.org/about/introduction-bjcp/

 

[foxy]

It means exactly that. BJCP means exactly that, it's the Beer Judges Certification Program. FFS!

https://www.bjcp.org/about/introduction-bjcp/

Please read what I wrote, a BJCP competition is run according to the rules, but can be run without BJCP certified judges.

 

[Sadfield]

Please read what I wrote, a BJCP competition is run according to the rules, but can be run without BJCP certified judges.

Both judges on that comp were BJCP qualified.

 

[foxy]

Really? Cheshire Cat claimed he was CEO of Coca Cola UK.

 

[Sadfield]

Really?

Perhaps it was Dr Chris White on a flying visit.

Everyone's a liar and/or **** brewer.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I can honestly say since i got the inkbird and fermented at correct temps under pressure my beers are really good, we are home brewers Foxy does it matter how you brew as long as you are happy with the end result, i would say that most folks out on a Saturday wouldn't know a good pint if bit them in the ass come on castlemaine,vb, fosters, even we have p-ss water for the general public

 

[Rodcx500z]

Really? Cheshire Cat claimed he was CEO of Coca Cola UK.

Woah you leave CC alone he might live in Cheshire which bad to a Lanky mon but Wazza is a great place with some really quality pubs