The difference between live and dry yeast.

[Covrich]

I must confess I do use dry a lot of the time

however when it comes to specific styles I do feel liquid just gives you a better result, Brisish pale ales/ bitters in particular. Using a west yorkshire or a particular fav of mine is London Ale III. I don't believe I can achieve anywhere near the same results with any dry yeast, in my opinion anyway. I would probably use a liquid for a weiss or belgian in most cases too although I have had a few decent dry strains.

 

[jeg3]

Lots of dry yeasts suitable for English ales:

S-04
Daystar Nottingham
Mangrove Jack's M36 Liberty Bell

All are 10-11g which is sufficient to inoculate 23 litres of wort. Unopened dry yeast will last years in a cool, dark place, once opened they won't last as long but should last a couple of months if it is airtight.

Liquid yeasts are different. Even unopened they have a best before date which will need a starter if exceeded. Some liquid yeasts need a starter anyway.

It's difficult to go wrong with dry yeast. I've never rehydrated, I just sprinkle it in and never had any problems.

 

[Galena]

Thanks, so if I were to brew say en English beer. How do I go about selecting a yeast?
Also, it appears that there is more than you need in one packet for a single brew. How long does is last at normal fridge temperature?

Whether there is more than enough in one pack depends on the batch size and OG. I have never used less than one pack but then I always overbuild my starter to store some in the fridge for another brew, you need to get hold of Homebrew Dads Yeast Starter Calculator and have a play with that I believe you can still download it HERE it runs on excel or Google Sheets, alternatively there is a online version. I have restarted yeast that has been in the fridge more than 8 months with no problem.
The thing with liquid yeast is it requires a little planning and a little bit of kit and a good methodology but is quite easy once done for the first time, plus fridge space to store it. In my opinion if you don't enjoy doing it then use dry yeast as liquid is only cheap if you are reusing. I would suggest buying the book Yeast by Chris White for a good in depth read and if you want to know yeast characteristics then look at the data sheets for the yeasts and they will tell you a bit about them, both Wyeast and White Labs. Like this for example HERE

 

[Galena]

@Polcho you might find these two yeast comparison videos by Brew Dudes useful,

 

[Polcho]

Whether there is more than enough in one pack depends on the batch size and OG. I have never used less than one pack but then I always overbuild my starter to store some in the fridge for another brew, you need to get hold of Homebrew Dads Yeast Starter Calculator and have a play with that I believe you can still download it HERE it runs on excel or Google Sheets, alternatively there is a online version. I have restarted yeast that has been in the fridge more than 8 months with no problem.
The thing with liquid yeast is it requires a little planning and a little bit of kit and a good methodology but is quite easy once done for the first time, plus fridge space to store it. In my opinion if you don't enjoy doing it then use dry yeast as liquid is only cheap if you are reusing. I would suggest buying the book Yeast by Chris White for a good in depth read and if you want to know yeast characteristics then look at the data sheets for the yeasts and they will tell you a bit about them, both Wyeast and White Labs. Like this for example HERE

Thanks for that Galena.

 

[krispn]

@Polcho you might find these two yeast comparison videos by Brew Dudes useful,

I was just checking those out earlier.

 

[trueblue]

@Polcho you might find these two yeast comparison videos by Brew Dudes useful,

Interesting videos always skeptical of a lot of American videos talking about British ales but these two were better than most. The way they describe SO-4 as always making a beer taste like homebrew is spot on the stuff is total ***** and 100% agree with them that the Wyeast West Yorkshire is the best of the ones they tried.

 

[Braufather]

I must confess I do use dry a lot of the time

however when it comes to specific styles I do feel liquid just gives you a better result, Brisish pale ales/ bitters in particular. Using a west yorkshire or a particular fav of mine is London Ale III. I don't believe I can achieve anywhere near the same results with any dry yeast, in my opinion anyway. I would probably use a liquid for a weiss or belgian in most cases too although I have had a few decent dry strains.

I’m using London fog for the first time which I believe is the wlp version of London 3. It’s for a hoppy American session, but was thinking of using it for an ESB next time so that sounds positive. That or liberty bell if i go dry.

For English IPAs and English summer ales I use 007. What do You use here?

 

[Braufather]

@Polcho you might find these two yeast comparison videos by Brew Dudes useful,

They sort of championed 007 in the first part then couldn’t even remember it in the second one?

interesting pronunciation of Thames too

 

[MickDundee]

Interesting videos always skeptical of a lot of American videos talking about British ales but these two were better than most. The way they describe SO-4 as always making a beer taste like homebrew is spot on the stuff is total ***** and 100% agree with them that the Wyeast West Yorkshire is the best of the ones they tried.

I sometimes feel like I’m alone when it comes to my dislike of S-04. Used it twice. The first time I ended up with fusel alcohol because I accidentally pitched too hot (it wasn’t even massively hot, just 25C) and the beer was barely drinkable (but I managed). The second time the beer had an odd after taste that I’ve not had in my other beers and it didn’t have any of the fruity esters I was looking for.

I actually think that the Fermentis yeasts in general are over rated - When it comes to dry, I’d take the Lallemand yeasts over Fermentis every time (although I do have a couple of packs of S23 for a lager in a couple of brews time, I’d usually use Lallemand Diamond)

 

[Oneflewover]

I sometimes feel like I’m alone when it comes to my dislike of S-04. Used it twice. The first time I ended up with fusel alcohol because I accidentally pitched too hot (it wasn’t even massively hot, just 25C) and the beer was barely drinkable (but I managed). The second time the beer had an odd after taste that I’ve not had in my other beers and it didn’t have any of the fruity esters I was looking for.

I actually think that the Fermentis yeasts in general are over rated - When it comes to dry, I’d take the Lallemand yeasts over Fermentis every time (although I do have a couple of packs of S23 for a lager in a couple of brews time, I’d usually use Lallemand Diamond)

Completely agree with your comments about S-04 in particular and Fermentis in general Mick. However I generally use Mangrove Jack's as an alternative (when using dry) and overall am happy with the results

 

[Oneflewover]

I must confess I do use dry a lot of the time

however when it comes to specific styles I do feel liquid just gives you a better result, Brisish pale ales/ bitters in particular. Using a west yorkshire or a particular fav of mine is London Ale III. I don't believe I can achieve anywhere near the same results with any dry yeast, in my opinion anyway. I would probably use a liquid for a weiss or belgian in most cases too although I have had a few decent dry strains.

Spot on. When I started out I used dry only, then for a while liquid exclusively. Now I'm relaxed about it aside from when I'm brewing specific styles - mainly the ones you've referred to. And London ale 3 is a brilliant yeast. So characterful, reliable and versatile. If I had to choose just one yeast to brew with this would be it.

 

[MickDundee]

Completely agree with your comments about S-04 in particular and Fermentis in general Mick. However I generally use Mangrove Jack's as an alternative (when using dry) and overall am happy with the results

Yeah I use a combination of MJ (I really like their Wit and Saison yeasts, and M54) and Lallemand (mainly BRY-97, Diamond and Belle Saison).

 

[Braufather]

Not sure if true I’ve read a lot that MJ yeasts Are just repacked fermantis and Lallemand?

isnt liberty bell supposed to be S04? those of you who dislike S04, how have you got on with liberty bell?

Bry-97, never used it but all I hear are good things, is it similar to MJ east coast ale?

 

[MickDundee]

Not sure if true I’ve read a lot that MJ yeasts Are just repacked fermantis and Lallemand?

isnt liberty bell supposed to be S04? those of you who dislike S04, how have you got on with liberty bell?

Bry-97, never used it but all I hear are good things, is it similar to MJ east coast ale?

I would find it hard to believe if S04 and Liberty Bell are definitely the same. I don’t like S04 but do like Liberty Bell.

I find BRY-97 is cleaner than M44 and floccs better than US05 so you get the best bits of both yeasts.

 

[Braufather]

I’ve used liberty bell before but dont have notes but have a packet on stand by. I’ve also I packet of Bryan 97, so I can try that for first time too. Trouble is There are so many other factors in play I never know what’s down to the yeast and what’s not!

 

[Joust]

When I started trying different yeasts I was blown away how much of an effect it had on flavour.

But when i try the same yeast as wet or dry or making a starter or under or over pitching - I see very little difference.

 

[Sadfield]

A large factor in this is probably our own errors early on in the learning curve, most likely with the most available dry yeasts. Then there's confirmation bias, the more money, time and/or effort invested, returning a willingness to view results favourably. And thirdly, dried yeasts are produced on a massive scale and so are likely selected to be commercially appealing to the widest possible market, lending them to be generic and not overly assertive. All leading to this question continually occurring, when yeast is just a microorganism that consumes what we present it.

 

[marshbrewer]

I would find it hard to believe if S04 and Liberty Bell are definitely the same. I don’t like S04 but do like Liberty Bell.

I have the same experience. I dislike S04's tart taste; to the extent I have tasted it in commercial beer, checked, and confirmed that they were using S04, so I'm pretty taste sensitive to it. Liberty Bell smells so very different when fermenting, and doesn't have the same taste when done. I would be absolutely flabbergasted if they were the same yeast.

 

[marshbrewer]

Just as an aside - after using Liberty Bell for ages as my main yeast, I decided to give S04 a try to see if I had misremembered, and in fact it was the same. It wasn't! I know, I know, risk of confirmation bias, although its worth noting that S04 would have been easier (and cheaper) for me to get hold of, so it would have been win win for me if it was the same. I'm really convinced it isn't.

Also, S04 is not a dried version of the Whitbread yeast, according to the various genetic maps floating around the internet.