What if I don't cold crash a lager?

[fuggled]

Hi all

I am doing my first lager. It is an all grain lager recipe with saflager w37/70 which re-hydrated and pitched at 12C. So far it is all going to plan, I have done 21 days at 12 degrees C, now I am halfway through a diacetyl rest at 18C for 2 days (it took three days to gradually increase the temp up to 18).

My question is; what if I don't cold crash it? If I just fin it with gelatin and then bottle it (after batch carbing) will the beer be very different/worse than if it is cold crashed and then bottled? I plan on bottling, and keeping at 18-20C for 3 weeks, and then dropping that down to 2-3C for another 3+ before drinking.

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[An Ankoù]

I wouldn't fine it with gelatine. I made this mistake some time ago. Finings work great with PBs, but in bottles they have the effect of making the sediment very loose so that, although the beer looks crystal clear, as soon as you take the cap off and try to pour it, the sediment rises again and clouds the beer. You might try priming with a specialist bottling yeast, but is it worth the effort? I'm not familiar with batch carbing, I must admit. Is it the same as batch priming?

 

[fuggled]

Sorry, you’re quite right I should’ve said batch priming.
Ok, thanks for that tip, I won’t fine with gelatin then as it will have that effect on the yeast cake. I’ve done tonnes of ales and I’ve never cold crashed, I suppose I’m reluctant to cold crash this lager as if I mess it up and it gets infected/tainted then it’s a lot of work down the drain. Maybe I should just go for it! I could decant to a secondary vessel and then fridge that at 2-3C for a few days.
I suppose my question is would it make much difference if I don’t?

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry, you’re quite right I should’ve said batch priming.e beer
Ok, thanks for that tip, I won’t fine with gelatin then as it will have that effect on the yeast cake. I’ve done tonnes of ales and I’ve never cold crashed, I suppose I’m reluctant to cold crash this lager as if I mess it up and it gets infected/tainted then it’s a lot of work down the drain. Maybe I should just go for it! I could decant to a secondary vessel and then fridge that at 2-3C for a few days.
I suppose my question is would it make much difference if I don’t?

No.
Cold crashing should be safe, but if you're uncomfortable with it, don't do it.
The beer will be fine.

 

[fuggled]

No.
Cold crashing should be safe, but if you're uncomfortable with it, don't do it.
The beer will be fine.

thank you very much. So does cold crashing just improve clarity by dropping out the yeast/proteins, or does it add ‘something’ to the lager process? If I don’t do it, will it just be cloudy lager?

 

[An Ankoù]

thank you very much. So does cold crashing just improve clarity by dropping out the yeast/proteins, or does it add ‘something’ to the lager process? If I don’t do it, will it just be cloudy lager?

Just let it cool down again from the diacetyl rest temperature. Put it somewhere cool overnight and bottle the next day. Cold crashing may, but doesn't necessarily mean keeping it close to zero for days on end. If you lager the beer, for a couple or three months, there's no reason why it should be cloudy.

 

[fuggled]

Just let it cool down again from the diacetyl rest temperature. Put it somewhere cool overnight and bottle the next day. Cold crashing may, but doesn't necessarily mean keeping it close to zero for days on end. If you lager the beer, for a couple or three months, there's no reason why it should be cloudy.

brilliant, thanks that’s exactly what I had thought of doing and exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks!

 

[Surfingobo]

I fine all my beer with Gelatin and achieve crystal clear beers, especially when I use crisp clear choice malt. All my beers are bottled

 

[Zephyr259]

I normally cold crash all my beers, the fridge only goes down to about 3c so I leave it there for 2-3 days or up to a week if I get busy. Benefit is that it drops more of the yeast so I'm bottling clearer beer which then means less sediment in the bottle. All my beers seem to drop more or less crystal clear after a few weeks conditioning. You don't need to transfer to a secondary to cold crash, and there's no reason why a cold crash would cause an infection.

Due to an issue of space and time I didn't bother cold crashing my recent maibock after the diacetyl rest and it had a really bad chill haze to start with, I think it's sorted itself out after a month in the beer cupboard which sits about 10c this time of year. Not sure if the lack of cold crash was to blame for the chill haze but it probably didn't help.

 

[Leon103]

If there is no lagering period then it's not a lager. Simples

 

[fuggled]

If there is no lagering period then it's not a lager. Simples

I suppose my question was; is a cold crash part of the lagering process, or not?

 

[Leon103]

I suppose my question was; is a cold crash part of the lagering process, or not?

Yes. Lagering is storing at cold temperatures

 

[fuggled]

Yes. Lagering is storing at cold temperatures

I intend to store for a couple of months a cold temperatures, in the bottle, but not cold crash... surely that’s still a lager? I may have the wrong end of the stick, but genuinely interested to hear people’s thoughts?

 

[Zephyr259]

It's still a lager. You can fall into a rabbit hole of nitty gritty when it comes to the lagering process but one thing I read was that during the process you are slowly precipitating out stuff when then settles. If you lager then bottle this matter is left behind, if you lager after bottling then it's in the bottle sediment and can re-dissolve if you store the bottles above lagering temps, which is quite likely as most people won't store the bottles as close to 0c as they would be for lagering.

Then there's the part where a traditional lagering process is a slow ramp down before terminal gravity so the yeast keep working during storage.

I don't worry about it all, I'll generally do a fast lager fermentation like from brulosophy then cold crash/lager for a week or two before bottling. Carb warm then store cool. I don't make many lagers though, I tried a split batch experiment between a lager strain and a scottish strain fermented cold but the Scots got invaded by the Belgians so it wasn't exactly hard to tell the beers apart. :-)

 

[krispn]

I’ve whacked my fv which has an Export Helles in it into a repurposed outside coal shed (don’t tell the neighbours) and after a couple of days it’s dropped crystal clear! If you have access to a safe outside space and the temp is hovering around the 0c mark at night (it’s been below zero here some nights) it’ll be more efficient than your fridge for the cold crash. Mine will get kegged and carb’d by midweek - it’s due to get down to -1c Wed night so I’ll likely leave it until Thursday morning and transfer then carb it and stick it back out for a few more weeks if the weather stays chilly. Frees up the fridge for another German beer which will get treated to a similar process. I should add I did ramp down by a degree or two per day until it was at about 6c prior to putting it outside.

 

[fuggled]

I’ve whacked my fv which has an Export Helles in it into a repurposed outside coal shed (don’t tell the neighbours) and after a couple of days it’s dropped crystal clear! If you have access to a safe outside space and the temp is hovering around the 0c mark at night (it’s been below zero here some nights) it’ll be more efficient than your fridge for the cold crash. Mine will get kegged and carb’d by midweek - it’s due to get down to -1c Wed night so I’ll likely leave it until Thursday morning and transfer then carb it and stick it back out for a few more weeks if the weather stays chilly. Frees up the fridge for another German beer which will get treated to a similar process. I should add I did ramp down by a degree or two per day until it was at about 6c prior to putting it outside.

yes, it’s getting pretty cold here too, so perhaps it would be easy enough to pop outside for a few nights...do you put foil over your airlock to prevent nasties getting in through ‘suck back’? That’s probably what I’m most concerned about.

 

[Maxonian]

Hi all

I am doing my first lager. It is an all grain lager recipe with saflager w37/70 which re-hydrated and pitched at 12C. So far it is all going to plan, I have done 21 days at 12 degrees C, now I am halfway through a diacetyl rest at 18C for 2 days (it took three days to gradually increase the temp up to 18).

My question is; what if I don't cold crash it? If I just fin it with gelatin and then bottle it (after batch carbing) will the beer be very different/worse than if it is cold crashed and then bottled? I plan on bottling, and keeping at 18-20C for 3 weeks, and then dropping that down to 2-3C for another 3+ before drinking.

Thanks for your thoughts

You definitely don’t need to use finings with the 34/70 yeast. I’ve done warm and cold fermentations with it and the finished beers were crystal clear every time.

I would recommend lagering though, either in the bottle or in the fermenter. Both approaches have worked for me. I’ve been impatient in the past and the finished beer had a very strong sulphury smell, much stronger than usual. But even this dissipated after a couple of months of bottle conditioning. I think your 3 weeks warm, 3 weeks cold approach will work well.

 

[fuggled]

You definitely don’t need to use finings with the 34/70 yeast. I’ve done warm and cold fermentations with it and the finished beers were crystal clear every time.

I would recommend lagering though, either in the bottle or in the fermenter. Both approaches have worked for me. I’ve been impatient in the past and the finished beer had a very strong sulphury smell, much stronger than usual. But even this dissipated after a couple of months of bottle conditioning. I think your 3 weeks warm, 3 weeks cold approach will work well.

Thanks very much, that’s reassuring

 

[Covrich]

I intend to store for a couple of months a cold temperatures, in the bottle, but not cold crash... surely that’s still a lager? I may have the wrong end of the stick, but genuinely interested to hear people’s thoughts?

I have done this even with fake lagers in the bottle (using US05) and a good few weeks like 4 weeks adds lagering crispness to it, it does work in the bottle

 

[krispn]

yes, it’s getting pretty cold here too, so perhaps it would be easy enough to pop outside for a few nights...do you put foil over your airlock to prevent nasties getting in through ‘suck back’? That’s probably what I’m most concerned about.

I’ve a blow off tube rigged up. I was monitoring my chill so trying to keep things steady (a degree a day) and checking for sanitiser in the tube, relieving the negative pressure etc. For the last few degrees outside I just left it but it’s been fine but sure take some steps to minimise any nasties in your beer.