Beginners Guide to Water Treatment

Discussion in 'Grain, Hops, Yeast & Water' started by strange-steve, Aug 12, 2016.

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  1. Nov 28, 2018 #541

    Crystal_Ball

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    I found out that I can’t use Beersmith for my water profile and additions as CRS isn’t supported. Previous to knowing this I noticed that magnesium was in the setup in Beersmith but not on my water report so I contacted my supplier and they offered to send someone out to test it for me at home, which I was quite surprised about. The reason being is that my water (and probably most other people) comes from different sources. I declined the test.
     
  2. Nov 28, 2018 #542

    dan125

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    You could set-up a water profile in Beersmith for what the water would be like after you've treated with CRS.
    It would need adjusting every time you wanted to change the amount of CRS used per litre of water, so not ideal, but not too bad if you use a spreadsheet or similar to work out the adjustments for the CRS - this is what I used to do and it worked well. Since getting beersmith3 I've switched to using phosphoric acid though, because it is supported, and I prefer that it doesn't alter the sulphate & chloride levels of the water.
     
  3. Dec 1, 2018 #543

    timbowden

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    the last coupe of years my brews have not been their best and i got a water report from Murpheys. I followed their guidelines for Water treatment but never that happy. Ive recently done a brew (big Kenny) following the procedure outlined at the beginning of the post and the beer was fantastic! Im currently brewing a Ghost ship clone and hope to have the same success! Thanks for the info, its transformed my beers!
    tim
     
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  4. Dec 1, 2018 #544

    Crystal_Ball

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    Thanks for the advice on this.
    Do you just use Beersmith to work out the additions?
    What percentage are you using? I’ve seen it range from 25-81%.
    And where do you get it from?
     
  5. Dec 1, 2018 #545

    dan125

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    I have water profiles for my tap water & ashbeck set up so I can include them both, and adjust the proportions easily. Then I use BS to work out the mineral & acid additions
    I've been using 75% phosphoric acid, but you can adjust the %age in BS to whatever you've got. I picked it up from an overseas supplier when I was ordering from them but Brupaks do it so its available from a few UK suppliers I think
     
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  6. Dec 1, 2018 #546

    Saisonator

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    CRS is a pain in the **** when doing calculations because it increases sulphate and chloride. I plan to stick with lactic acid and buy some phosphoric acid in the future.
     
  7. Dec 1, 2018 #547

    Hoddy

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    Welcome back. Not seen you around these parts for quite a while.
     
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  8. Dec 2, 2018 #548

    Crystal_Ball

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    Thanks! Brewing has been taken over by spending a fortune on research! Websites the likes of Honest Brew and especially Verdant have been the main culprits. I’m getting back on the brewing wagon starting with water treatment, oh and I’ve brought myself a SS Brewmaster bucket and extras for closed transfer to my cornies. athumb..
     
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  9. Dec 2, 2018 #549

    Ben034

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  10. Dec 2, 2018 #550

    Bodysurfer

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    Hello all.

    Since coming across this thread a little while ago I’ve been having a go at this water treatment malarkey. I got myself some test kits and followed the instructions on the kits and this thread. I got results at the time I thought were reasonable. Reading through the thread I came across a comment from Strange Steve that, generally the calcium content is about 40% of the alkalinity figure. My figures come out slightly different each time but are always fairly constant at about 20ppm calcium and between 20 and 30ppm alkalinity. I was really confident that I was using the kits correctly until I had a look at the water company report for my postcode on their website (Welsh Water). This shows CaCO3 mg/l Water hardness as 52 and Ca mg/l as 21, one being just about bang on 40% of the other.

    So it was back to the tests and instructions, and the how to guide. Ive checked and rechecked. I’m still getting the same results. This is beginning to drive me a bit nuts! I’m as confident as I can be that I’m using the tests correctly, so I’m trying to think of an explanation.

    My calcium figure is good according to WW so I guess my alkalinity figure is out. In the big scheme of things, the difference between WW and me is 22ppm , a gnats do dah?

    Would be interested to hear views, opinions. Cheers, S
     
  11. Dec 2, 2018 #551

    strange-steve

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    @Bodysurfer
    Don't read too much into what I said about calcium being 40% of alkalinity. This can sometimes be used as an approximation but isn't necessarily accurate, especially in low mineral content water like yours.

    Ignore your water report's hardness value (it's not the same as alkalinity even though they are confusingly reported in the same units) and trust that the salifert results are pretty close :thumba:
     
  12. Dec 3, 2018 #552

    Bodysurfer

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    @strange-steve
    Thanks for the swift reply. I sort of got the idea that the 40% thing was approximate and not necessarily accurate, it was just the WW report that got me thinking. I'm confused about the other thing, alkalinity being reported in the same units as hardness, but there you go. Some things are just there to confuse!! I will take your sound advice and trust in the tests.
    I'm going to have a try at Czech pilsners next. Any pointers? Cheers, S
     
  13. Dec 3, 2018 #553

    strange-steve

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    Well you're in luck because your water is very good for a pilsner. All you need is a little touch of calcium chloride to bring the calcium up to about 50ppm and that's it really.
     
  14. Dec 4, 2018 #554

    Bodysurfer

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    Thanks, I'll give it a try and see what happens. Many thanks for the advice. Cheers, S
     
  15. Dec 9, 2018 #555

    Crystal_Ball

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    I have a question regarding timing of water treatment. So far I have treated all of my water together with CRS, campden and calcium chloride the night before brewing. Im sure I have read that the reason for this is so that the chemicals can get to work and that CO2 is released. Is this absolutely necessary? Is there a minimum amount of time? Just thinking that if I want to do a last minute decision brew it can’t necessarily be a last minute decision.
     
  16. Dec 9, 2018 #556

    strange-steve

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    The Campden and acid additions do require a little time to work, but a couple of minutes is probably more than enough. If you add them before you begin heating the water to strike or sparge temperature, give it a good stir, and the reaction will be complete by the time it gets up to temperature.

    Gypsum and calcium chloride don't need any time to work, they are simply used to supplement the ion content of the water.
     
  17. Dec 9, 2018 #557

    jjsh

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    So, I'm dipping my toe into the water treatment pond.

    First off - I've used the test kits to test for alkalinity and calcium. I get 217 and 90 respectively. This is all rather jolly, as it tallies pretty much with the Anglian Water results (see attached) for my postcode, which I'm hoping means its about bang on;

    Total hardness as calcium: 86.4
    Total hardness as calcium carbonate: 216

    So, I'm going to be good friends with CRS, it appears. I'm doing a Cali Common next, so does 1ml/L look about right for the CRS?

    If I'm going to play about with a water calculator, such as Graham Wheelers, are do these values look right, given my water report?

    Calcium 90
    Magnesium 9
    Sodium 43
    Sulphate 38
    Chloride 29

    All help gratefully received!
     
  18. Jan 12, 2019 #558

    rich1985

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    Hi All,

    I'm brewing my first stout tomorrow. I have calculated that my alkalinity is 172ppm and calcium is 180ppm. I'm going to be making 23l so to remove 50ppm am I right in thinking I would need 0.25ml per litre so 5.75ml of CRS. I do not believe I need to alter the calcium. Am I right there? Was also going to add in half a camden tablet too!

    Hopefully I can get some help on this.

    Thank you!
     
  19. Jan 18, 2019 at 12:43 PM #559

    strange-steve

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    Yeah that looks about right, although that's at the high end of dosage which maybe isn't ideal for a Cali common. Perhaps some dilution with Ashbeck or RO would reduce the amount of CRS required.
    According to your report yep, those are about right but you can see there's quite a large range between min and max values for sodium, sulphate, and chloride so I wouldn't worry about matching profiles too closely.
     
  20. Jan 18, 2019 at 1:04 PM #560

    strange-steve

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    Apologies for being late on this (again).
    You say you calculated values for calcium and alkalinity, how did you do that? Those values look a little suspect to me.

    0.25ml/L of CRS will remove approx 50ppm of alkalinity, however it's per liter of water used, not per liter of batch size.

    Half a Campden tablet should be fine athumb..
     

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