Beginners: UK kits vs US small batch AG/BIAB

[mook1979]

I am now convinced to have another look at kits. I recall how easy it was to open a can or two, pour it into a FV and away you go. I would have to steep grains and add plenty of hops to lift up the flavours quite a bit.

More realistically I will probably do more stove-top BIAB batches in the near future. Perhaps doing this, before adding a can or LME to scale up to 20L could give me the best of both worlds.

+1 to "louis macneice" for the bunking off at work to create and tweak recipes. I find it quite annoying when normal life gets in the way of my brewing obsession. Who knows where I would end up if I win the lottery and did not have to "work".

 

[mirsultankhan]

I have watched many videos of our American friends brewing. It appears to me that hardly any of them used a kit exclusively. If they did use extract it was a generic malt extract which they infused with a partial mash/steeping grains and hops. When they did use a kit it came with everything needed to jazz it up. Grains, little packets of liquid yeast that you slapped and started to instantly rehydrate.

In the UK it was recommended to me to try the Worcester hop shop which offers all grain kits and everything you will need to make an all grain beer and really they are quite awesome. Everything is fresh, the hops vacuum packed, awesome service at a very reasonable cost. Even with the cost of carraige it was more economical to buy two all grain kits than two extract kits from my local home-brew shop.

http://www.worcesterhopshop.co.uk/

Happy days!

 

[clibit]

The American homebrewtalk forum has loads of different sub-forums, but no kit brewing forum....

 

[rodwha]

On that forum there are certainly many who look down on prehopped canned wort type kits. Many will tell you that you need to move up. But there are many who started there and a few who still do.

In the US the bigger canned wort kit is Mr Beer and it's not that good. And not only that it's quite expensive. My friend had been making those for years and when I looked at the cost of his 2 gal (7.6L) kit I could do a 5 gal (19L) extract kit where you needed to boil the hops and use specialty grains. This is what most people in the US think of, and I've made them myself. They aren't nearly as good, and often aren't even within the realm of the style they represent. But I have no qualms with buying them if I can get them for a reasonable cost and doctor them up with DME, hops, and a better yeast.

I understand that some people don't have the time to spend on a full-on brew day. I'm doing partial mashes and considering cleanup prior to and after brewing I spend a lot of time in the kitchen. But I have that kind of time and I enjoy it as well. Not everyone does.

I get that some take pride in what they do, and creating a recipe is part of my enjoyment as I'm allowed to be creative and can make what I like. But it's very sad when there are those who will look at you as lesser than because you don't do it their way.

There is a thread on that forum devoted to Mr Beer brewing (and probably similar kits):
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/mr-beer-read-all-about-ask-questions-46360/

 

[louis macneice]

I am now convinced to have another look at kits. I recall how easy it was to open a can or two, pour it into a FV and away you go. I would have to steep grains and add plenty of hops to lift up the flavours quite a bit.

More realistically I will probably do more stove-top BIAB batches in the near future. Perhaps doing this, before adding a can or LME to scale up to 20L could give me the best of both worlds.

+1 to "louis macneice" for the bunking off at work to create and tweak recipes. I find it quite annoying when normal life gets in the way of my brewing obsession. Who knows where I would end up if I win the lottery and did not have to "work".

Absolutely! Think of the one gallon mini mash as your bag of brewing sugar/brew enhancer...of course you could always chuck that in as well.

Cheers, have fun and enjoy the beer - Louis MacNeice

 

[simon19791]

if i can resurrect an old thread and have my opinion;
I feel very much the same as the OP and have being doing kits for 15 months and have been really disappointed, all the kits i brewed apart from the Festival IPA had the 'Twang' and did everything i could apart from temp control.
I have recently take a big step both experience and financial, buy buying a BIAB starter kit, second hand fridge and built a temp control. I am currently brewing the HBC double IPA and it has bee sat in my fermenting fridge for 8 days at 19.5oC, i took a gravity reading yesterday and it started at 1060 and was at 1016 yesterday,had a little taste of the trial jar and the taste really blew me away, tasted 100% better than any of the finished kits and this is only after a week of fermenting.
I was on the verge of giving up, but thought i had to try everything i could.

I sincerely hope this does work and believe there is a world of good beers to be brewed at home that taste wonderful and have no home-brew twang.

So what am trying to say;

I think kits are OK, but I've always had that twang, this is more than probably due to temp control and perhaps i should do a kit as a control to see if I'm correct, but that said the BIAB I'm doing already seems miles better.

I watched a really interesting video on youtube last night from the Dogfish Head owner and he said that he started out as a homebrewer doing a 3 vessel system that eventually progressed into a what it is today. My interpretation of this is that you don't get these style of microbrewers starting from kits and to make your own style of copy your favourite styles, AG is the way to go.

Thats my thoughts anyway...

 

[clibit]

I think AG is the way to go too. :-)

Provided you have the time. My AG brews are better than my kit plus mini mashes, and they are loads better than straight kits. The closest I get to AG without doing AG is when I replace some of the base malt with DME. That produces great beer too.

 

[rodwha]

Do you know if the canned kits were a bit old? That's one thing I read as to why kits could be bad. I do mini mashes and use bags of LME from a company that moves them quickly so it hasn't sat long.

 

[bquiggerz]

I've made two kits and one AG in the FV so we'll see how that goes. It was a fun way to sound my time and "stink out the house" as others put it. I actually enjoyed most of the smells I had

 

[alarmsparks]

Sorry for the silly question but what is AG and BIAB? I have looked at the Glossary Page and can't find them. I am finding the forum hard going with all these abbreviation. Hope I have not offended any one.

 

[stevej]

Sorry for the silly question but what is AG and BIAB? I have looked at the Glossary Page and can't find them. I am finding the forum hard going with all these abbreviation. Hope I have not offended any one.

HI check out the glossary for abbreviations ag is all grain biab is brew in a bag http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/glossary.php

 

[mook1979]

Hi Simon,

I recently saw a new line of these "American style" small batch all grain kits on a website where I normally order ingredients from and I was reminded of this thread. My intention is not to offend anyone, but I realise I cannot really express my opinion without someone not liking it. It is precisely this twang that I could not get rid of, which went away when I started doing AG (same sanitation procedure and FV). I wish all homebrew shops and suppliers could do a bit more to help people who are looking for a way to get into homebrewing. My approach (probably completely wrong from a business perspective) would be to ask if you are interested in saving time and possibly limiting the flavours and aromas a little bit or if scaling the volume down and making beer with the actual "raw" ingredients to create a more complex drink is what you are after.

We know that most people like most types of commercial beer, mostly lager. They may not like or know about various styles or that better tasting beer is also available. This may play a role in deciding to make a "lager" from a can. I knew about other types of beer, but did not know about other options related to starting in home brewing. I should have searched further before I bought my Coopers kit, probably around 3 years ago.

I know I am pretty much just blabbering about things in the past and wishing it could have started differently, but perhaps a couple of people interested in getting start may read this and realise that incorporating some grains and hops into the process is really easy and easy to do in your kitchen.

My wife was shocked when I told her not to touch this massive Coopers fermenter that I placed in the corner of our kitchen after my first brewday. I did not have space anywhere else in our house. Placing a one gallon fermenter in a wardrobe somewhere could have saved me a couple of frustrating conversations about what is allowed inside the kitchen and what should be done outside.

if i can resurrect an old thread and have my opinion;
I feel very much the same as the OP and have being doing kits for 15 months and have been really disappointed, all the kits i brewed apart from the Festival IPA had the 'Twang' and did everything i could apart from temp control.
I have recently take a big step both experience and financial, buy buying a BIAB starter kit, second hand fridge and built a temp control. I am currently brewing the HBC double IPA and it has bee sat in my fermenting fridge for 8 days at 19.5oC, i took a gravity reading yesterday and it started at 1060 and was at 1016 yesterday,had a little taste of the trial jar and the taste really blew me away, tasted 100% better than any of the finished kits and this is only after a week of fermenting.
I was on the verge of giving up, but thought i had to try everything i could.

I sincerely hope this does work and believe there is a world of good beers to be brewed at home that taste wonderful and have no home-brew twang.

So what am trying to say;

I think kits are OK, but I've always had that twang, this is more than probably due to temp control and perhaps i should do a kit as a control to see if I'm correct, but that said the BIAB I'm doing already seems miles better.

I watched a really interesting video on youtube last night from the Dogfish Head owner and he said that he started out as a homebrewer doing a 3 vessel system that eventually progressed into a what it is today. My interpretation of this is that you don't get these style of microbrewers starting from kits and to make your own style of copy your favourite styles, AG is the way to go.

Thats my thoughts anyway...

 

[Covrich]

made a mistake an answered an old question .. cannot delete

 

[Gingerbrews]

Well I for one must say that the quality of present day kits is a million miles better than they were in the late '70s and 80s. Then all kit produced beer tasted like "homebrew."
Now, having returned to making my own, I can produce beer that my friends rave about; and these have all so far been made from kits either as per instructions or with a few tweaks.
That said, I'm moving onto AG as it will allow me to experiment and stretch my interest and ability in brewing.
Everyone to their own.
If kits weren't available, a lot of people would never start

 

[dad_of_jon]

I can produce beer that my friends rave about;
Everyone to their own.

If kits weren't available, a lot of people would never start

+1

and perhaps the same could be said for the youtube brewing vids :-)

The sanitising and bottling process are the same for kits as ag, so starting off with a kit lets you get used to an easier process for the beginner.

Although even my first kit had a hop tea tea and candi sugar added!

 

[Cwrw666]

Well I for one must say that the quality of present day kits is a million miles better than they were in the late '70s and 80s. Then all kit produced beer tasted like "homebrew."
Now, having returned to making my own, I can produce beer that my friends rave about; and these have all so far been made from kits either as per instructions or with a few tweaks.
That said, I'm moving onto AG as it will allow me to experiment and stretch my interest and ability in brewing.
Everyone to their own.
If kits weren't available, a lot of people would never start

Here, here.

Also it's funny how these days we compare our homebrew to the best of craft beers while back in the seventies pub beer was mostly s**te. I know, I had the hangovers to prove it.

 

[Gingerbrews]

In Scotland in the 70s, in a pub you had a choice between Lager or Heavy, and that was it. And both were ****! Even the rubbish homebrew kits gave you an alternative. Often wonder how the breweries then made money; today we're spoiled for choice.
However still prefer my own brews. Currently have great expectations for a Brewuk Single Hop Citra which is conditioning in the shed.