Declining bitter.

[NormanHurst]

Scottish beers were traditionally less hopped than English counterparts. The cost of 'importing' from southern England is often cited as a reason.

Presumably that malt-forward-fewer-hops stylr may be why 80/- was a "Heavy" rather than a "Bitter" in common parlance.

I have fond memories of drinking 70/- and 80/- as a student. Occasionally spotted a 60/- or 90/- too. Though my memory suggests most of my student loan went on Deuchars IPA.

 

[Sadfield]

That's one of those romantic American beer myths.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/08/scottish-hopping-1851.html?m=1

 

[NormanHurst]

That's one of those romantic American beer myths.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/08/scottish-hopping-1851.html?m=1

Thanks for the link. Always good to bust a myth.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

So that’s cleared it all up then…

It’s darker, it’s pale, it’s Indian (or not)
It’s bitter, it’s heavy, it’s hopped (or it’s not)
It’s flat or it’s fizzy, in between maybe? What?
It’s session or stronger - sometimes a lot.
It’s warm or it’s chilled (if you want to talk rot).
Whatever it is though, I like it a lot!

 

[Sadfield]

Thanks for the link. Always good to bust a myth.

A attended on of Ron's Scotland talks, there was a bit of myth busting. It's almost as good as his Scottish beer being peated one.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2011/09/peat-in-scottish-brewing.html?m=1

 

[Cheshire Cat]

All Scottish beer is smoked.

 

[peebee]

The presumption that hops were used less in Scotland because of the distance they had to travel, is based on a bit of short-sightedness. "Eric" on Jim's forum helped me out here. He gave me a link to a write-up by Coleridge of his 9 day "Circumcursion" the Western Lake District (well before Alfred Wainwright) when, in the first minutes of the first day, he walked through a Hop-Field near Keswick:

Mapping the Lakes. The relevant bit is below. Remember this is 1801; engage "far-sight"!

Hops (and beer, rather than unhopped ale that is) came into widespread acceptance by around the English Civil War (c.1640).

[Day 1. From: Greta Hall, Keswick To: Long Moor, Ennerdale]

On Sunday Augt. 1st - half after 12 I had a Shirt, cravat, 2 pair of Stockings, a little paper & half a dozen Pens, a German Book (Voss's Poems) & a little Tea & Sugar, with my Night Cap, packed up in my natty green oil-skin, neatly squared, and put into my net Knapsack / and the Knap-sack on my back & the Besom stick in my hand, which for want of a better, and in spite of Mrs C. & Mary, who both raised their voices against it, especially as I left the Besom scattered on the Kitchen Floor, off I sallied - over the Bridge [Greta Bridge, Keswick] , thro' the Hop-Field, ...

In the UK hops obviously grow better in the Kent and Herefordshire areas, but it took time for economics to push the growing exclusively down there.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I thought hops were brought back with the soldiers who fought in the 100 years war from Flanders.

 

[MickDundee]

All Scottish beer is smoked.

I find it easier to drink it, beer is very difficult to light!

 

[Baldbrewer]

We have a pub in a village near us that keep bitter exceptionally well but sadly it's tiny inside so it is our early doors pub for the warmer months.
Sadly our "winter" early doors pub in the town keeps his bitter in the same temp as his lager stock .
So I tend to stick to Tribute or Beavertown in this pub.
We have tried to tell the landlord but being over 50 I guess we are out of his "target group" lol
In the surrounding area we a good choice from Hook Norton,Timothy Taylors,Everards,Otter to name but a few.
So it's sad to hear this great British staple is in decline in some areas.

Personally I always have a bitter on tap amongst my stock. Tomorrows brewday being a CML TT.
Have a great weekend all

 

[peebee]

All Scottish beer is smoked.

Okay, a light-hearted comment, I guess. But it certainly would have been the case, and the Scots would have used peat.

Again, the idea that malt wasn't smoky is based on short-sightedness. In the 17th century some areas (Derbyshire especially) were making a name for themselves by making malt that wasn't smoky - extensively using straw and coke (coke was just being turned to this use back then).

Sure, people didn't generally like smoky ale/beer. But there had to be a period of universally "smoky malt" for there to be a place from which smokiness could be exorcised.


If you look further back than 1800, subjects like this do begin to fall in place.

 

[Sadfield]

@peebee I think the bigger picture was that demand had outpaced supply and imported hops were being used. American hops appear in 1840's, so its possibly safe to assume European imports came earlier.

If we're talking about Scottish brewing stylistically, surely we're referring to the industrialisation of brewing? Scotch Ales or Shilling Ales of the mid 1800's onwards, and the malting practices of the time?

 

[peebee]

I thought hops were brought back with the soldiers who fought in the 100 years war from Flanders.

Dutch migrant laborers. Those soldiers perhaps hastened the acceptance of hops? The Brits weren't impressed to start with, but Henry VIII armies were supplied with hopped "beer" 'cos it kept longer than "ale".

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Okay, a light-hearted comment, I guess. But it certainly would have been the case, and the Scots would have used peat.

Why? There's no peat - but plenty of coal - in the Central Belt which is where all the people are, and peat lands are no good for growing barley.

As for hops - there is archaeological evidence of hops being imported some centuries before written history of same (see eg the Graveney Boat of ~950AD), but whether they were used for brewing or some more druidic-mystical purpose is not known. Quite possibly the latter.

 

[peebee]

@peebee I think the bigger picture was that demand had outpaced supply and imported hops were being used. Americans appear in 1840's, so its possibly safe to assume European imports came earlier.

If we're talking about Scottish brewing stylistically, surely we're referring to the industrialisation of brewing? Scotch Ales or Shilling Ales of the mid 1800's onwards, and the malting practices of the time?

I was just taking the opportunity to interject a bit of "there's no smoke without fire". Just in case anyone is getting carried away with myth-busting.

Why? There's no peat - but plenty of coal - in the Central Belt which is where all the people are, and peat lands are no good for growing barley. ...

Sorry if that came over as "exclusively" peat. I'm sure the Scots will have tried coal too . Sea-coal, they weren't digging much of it up at the time.

I don't know when hops became naturalised in the UK. But I had assumed it was well before 1600s.

[EDIT: The farm up the road has been experimenting growing barley - for cattle feed - while over-looked by the largest area of heather moor in the country (and associated blanket bog and peat). That's desperation because of feed-costs with this on-going Ukraine war. By comparison, in the 16-17th century everyone was desperate.]

 

[MrRook]

I'm brewing this 3 gallon batch on Sunday.

 

[peebee]

... As for hops - there is archaeological evidence of hops being imported some centuries before written history of same (see eg the Graveney Boat of ~950AD), but whether they were used for brewing or some more druidic-mystical purpose is not known. Quite possibly the latter.

Interesting! Graveney Boat

 

[stripeyjoe]

All Scottish beer is smoked.

battered, and deep fried.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I love Scottish beer Old Jock one of my favourites and I’ve made a clone and also Traquair House. Skull Splitter is also a great beer.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I love Scottish beer Old Jock one of my favourites and I’ve made a clone and also Traquair House. Skull Splitter is also a great beer.

I have had some great beers in Scotland over the 5 years on holidays and, yes old jock is a cracker