Ecofass Kegs

[bobsbeer]

On the subject of kegs and the different types the Ecofass kegs seem to fit the bill for home brewers.

http://www.draughtbeeronline.com/_uk/ecofass/index.html

These kegs can be filled bright, gassed up, but there is no need to steralise. The keg has a replaceable plastic bag inside which is deflated by pressure outside the bag forcing the beer out of the keg and into your glass.

The bags are fairly reasonable at less than £5 each and don't need to be steralised before use. This gets around the cleaning problems associated with kegs. They come in a variety of sizes including 20lt. Ecofass kegs use a standard Sankey keg coupler for dispensing that can be altered to act as a filler by removing both the non- return valves (NRV). They can be filled under pressure, gravity, pumped or CO2 blanket. Filling is carried out upright.

Ecofass have brought out a new design and range of kegs which were due for release earlier this year but as usual with this type of thing there has been a delay. This new range is now available as 10L & 20L kegs. This range will fill the gap in the market for both domestic use and low volume outlets. The 25L and 30L kegs are expected to market by the end of July 2013.

The new range of kegs is slimmer than the previous models -
Dimensions are:
There will be only one diameter for all the range of new kegs = 310 mm
Height 10 litre = 340 mm Weight: 3kgs
Height 20 litre = 482 mm Weight: 4kgs
Height 25 litre = 562 mm Weight: 4.3kgs
Height 30 litre = 642 mm Weight: 4.7kgs

A Cornie by comparison measures about 210 x 630 mm and weighs about 7.5 kg

I have found a supplier in the UK for these who has quoted the following prices:

Prices for the kegs are as follows:

20L Ecofass Keg £56.00 each
Sankey re-useable Valve £ 4.00 each
20L disposable bag £ 3.15 each

20L Test Kit available from 10/06/13, consisting of:
1 x 20L Keg
1 x reusable valve (A or S type)
2 x oneway bags 20L
2 x oneway sets 20L (A or S type)
1 x tightening tool
1 x cleaning adapter
1 x user guide £106.00 each kit (free delivery to England, Wales & Scotland)

30L Ecofass Keg £60.00 each
Sankey re-useable Valve £ 4.00 each
30L disposable bag £ 3.80 each

The prices exclude VAT and are offered with free delivery within England (excluding London), Wales and Scotland for a full pallet (20L x 32 off kegs & 30L x 24 off kegs) and Qty 150 x bags. At present it seems UK breweries are only interested in the 30L kegs so we only intend to bring these into stock initially.

Smaller quantities will be subject to availability and additional cost for courier delivery dependent upon the quantity ordered.

I was thinking that given the weight we could do a group order of a pallet load of 32 x 20lt kegs and get them at the above price with free shipping to the hub and then My Hermes onward cost would be about £8 so a total cost of about £75 delivered. That seems to compare well with current cornie prices. I have ordered a 20lt trial set to see how they work. Thoughts everyone? Would you be interested in a group buy?

( I have also cross posted on Jim's to see if there is any interest there)

 

[bobsbeer]

The other useful bit about these kegs is that they could be used for wine as there is no carbonation added to the product, so perfect for still wine.

 

[bobsbeer]

Over on Jim's I'm running a poll and asking people to pm me if they are interested and how many kegs they would want. Have a look HERE

 

[pittsy]

I like the idea of these but do you need a new bag each time it's used Bob ?

 

[bobsbeer]

That is the intention of the makers, but as home brewers are tightwads by nature, I'm sure there will be a way of washing and re sterilising. If you can get beer in and out again, then I see no reason why you can't get water and videne in and out. But the idea is that you use a new bag which doesn't need to be steralised before use, making it easy.

 

[pittsy]

Yeah that's what i thought , Bit off putting if it's £80 ish plus £3.50 a bag per brew with the off chance of not having a bag 1 brew day etc :hmm: Do you use pipe and taps etc same as cornie set ups . It would seem a little pricey all in all to me compared to a cornie

 

[calumscott]

So, given I don't have cornies, what would I need to get going?

A starter kit
A coupler
Some beer line
A tap
Some method of pressurising (I'm guessing that the gas void is on a one way valve so actually a foot pump would suffice?)

It can't be that easy can it?

Then for force carbing I'd need a CO2 cylinder and regulator?

For cask ale just the addition of a beer engine?

 

[bobsbeer]

I am waiting to get my test kit, but looking at them you seem to get the one off bits with the test kit, such as the valve tightener and cleaning thing. After that you would need a sankey or grundy connector or two, which on ebay are around £5-10, although new ones are a lot more than that. Then some beer and gas line, regulator and tap or hand pump. From what I can see there would be no need for an aspirator or check valve for a hand pump set up as you could leave the air in open and use the pump to draw the beer to the pump. No air is getting to the beer as the air is the otherside of the inner bag.

I guess some sort of air pump could be used to pressurise the air side, such as a foot pump or car tyre compressor. No need for co2 unless you want to carbonate in the bag on filling. So less use of co2 overall. I'm not sure what the bag is made of or it's permeability, but the makers use compressed air rather than co2, which makes you think the bags have an oxygen barrier.

 

[bobsbeer]

Yeah that's what i thought , Bit off putting if it's £80 ish plus £3.50 a bag per brew with the off chance of not having a bag 1 brew day etc :hmm: Do you use pipe and taps etc same as cornie set ups . It would seem a little pricey all in all to me compared to a cornie

I do think there are advantages in this system as I can see it being suitable for a variety of styles of beer and wine. Anyone starting out on the kegging route, the costs are about the same given the increase in price for cornies. I have now sold all my cornies which has pretty much raised the funds to swap over. The bag issue is a concern, but like other consumables in brewing you need to ensure you have stock. The bags are the same. The down side is that the bags appear to come in boxes of 150, which is fine for commercial breweries, but a lot for home brewers who only brew maybe 5-10 times per year. If the bulk scheme goes ahead I plan on stocking the bags, so they could be ordered in smaller quantities.

 

[calumscott]

Right well add me to the "definitely interested, but don't yet have the funds" list.

I think I see myself with three of these but starting from scratch isn't cheap - I think I might have a source of taps and pumps and beer line so that would certainly help...

I'll know in the next couple of weeks whether I can fund some or not. :thumb:

 

[bobsbeer]

Right well add me to the "definitely interested, but don't yet have the funds" list.

Added. :thumb: I don't think there is a rush as these things tend to take ages to organise. :lol: Home brewers are not the most decisive lot I've noticed. :lol:

 

[bobsbeer]

Just received my test kit. Photos to follow but first impressions are that these are a brill set up. The test comes with two types of bag. 2 x one way sankey bags which have the valve integrated into the bag. And 2 bags for use with the reusable sankey valve. With this one you would have to clean the valve before use and the test kit comes with a cleaning socket. The bags for use with the reusable valve do look like you could reuse them if you wanted to rinse it out and re steralise. The test kit also come with the socket for tightening the collar on the barrel. The instructions state the collar should be tightened to 65mn or 48 lb ft. The empty keg is very light at 4kg. Very impressed and can't wait to fill it.

 

[Darcey]

Are they designed to be forced carbonated? I can find a data sheet anywhere to say yes or no? Looks like the are filling counter pressure/carbonated on the website. Looks similar concept to the KeyKegs which commercially are a pain in the **** IMO.

I am interested if you can force carbonate :hmm:

 

[calumscott]

I think we decided that you would just hook the gas up to either just the beer line or both the beer and gas lines...

 

[Darcey]

I think we decided that you would just hook the gas up to either just the beer line or both the beer and gas lines...

:hmm: interesting.

Or indeed prime the keg. Any sediment will be dispensed at the end if its kept still as the beer is drawn off the top... double :hmm: :hmm:

 

[bobsbeer]

Now that I have seen the item it looks easy to either fill bright beer and then carbonate via the beer 'out' line or priming and filling. The instructions also mentions fermenting in the bag. The process of filling is to insert the bag, inflate the bag inside with co2 and then deflate by applying pressure on the outside, then fill via the beer 'out' line. There is no central spear so beer is taken from the top as the bag is squeezed. In the case of primed in the bag beer this would avoid the trub until the very end. So a minimal pressure outside the bag needs to be maintained in order to squeeze the bag. Although if you were using an engine the suction would collapse the bag without outside pressure. As for over carbonated beer it would be no problem releasing the excess pressure by reducing the outside pressure, ie allowing the bag to expand and then venting the beer line. The co2 would come out as you release the pressure. As there is no central spear any gas gap would be at the top of the liquid and so come out first. Then you re-inflate the outside back to serving pressure. I'm sure all of this will be a bit of a learning curve, but the versatility is much better than a cornie or even a SS keg. The down side is the cost of the bags if you only use one time.

 

[bobsbeer]

The 20lt Ecofass standing next to a cornie:

Top of the keg. The red dot is the safety valve:

The bags with the tools and the reusable sankey valve and collar.

The reusable valve screwed onto a bag.

The reusable valve fitted to the washing collar

 

[Buster]

erm....no pics Bob, the word "Image"

Yup, I can see um !!! "I need professional help! "

 

[bobsbeer]

Edited. Any better? :hmm:

 

[Cyclops]

what does this do that a Corny or a Polypin wont?