Help needed! New to TC , have I ruined it?

[Sammy391]

Hi guys

started my first ever batch of turbo cider , 30l of Tesco Apple juice (from concentrate)
A mixture of tea bags, sugar and some berry cordial.
9g of wilko gervin ale yeast

no bubbles what so ever in the first 24 hours , not sure of the temperature but room temp minimum- and I’m worried I’ve ruined my TC- and have now 30l of funky flavoured apple juice!

I checked the cordial , and it has potassium sorbate- which I’ve read on here will mean the fermentation won’t start - which is possibly what’s happened here?


Any help or advice?

 

[Sammy391]

Must add , the mixture of tea bags, sugar and a bit of cordial was mixed into half a litre or so of apple juice and heated

 

[Sammy391]

Apologies again, the cordial ingredients say “Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Metabisulphite ”

however I can only have put 100ml in and heated/boiled

 

[DavieC]

Hi maybe your fv isn't air tight so not always getting bubbles in the airlock, just leave it, its probably fine, after a week take a hydrometer reading, should be around 1.000

 

[Graz]

Apologies again, the cordial ingredients say “Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Metabisulphite ”

however I can only have put 100ml in and heated/boiled

Whilst not ideal that you added this stuff I'd be surprised if 100ml in 30,000ml would make much difference. Sodium metabisulphite (Campden Tablets) is primarily used as an anti oxidising and sanitising addition in wine and cider making but it will stun yeast if added in quantity. Potassium Sorbate is a fermentation stopper / yeast killer. So for future I would use products with these things in though supposedly you can get rid of them by boiling which you've done.

If it isn't fermenting I think the bigger issue could be yeast nutrition and oxygen. An ale yeast needs some stuff other than sugar to feed on to get going as well as a well oxygenated wort. Apple juice doesn't have much by way of yeast nutrient in it and I suspect is also harder to get some air into (the usual vigorous stir of ale wort before pitching).

If you have some the add some yeast nutrient to your mix, give it a stir and maybe that could help it. Better to use a cider yeast for cider so the other option is a quick trip to your local home brew place to get some and try getting it going with that. Whilst that's going on at least the sulphite will have had time to dissipate.

 

[Sammy391]

Whilst not ideal that you added this stuff I'd be surprised if 100ml in 30,000ml would make much difference. Sodium metabisulphite (Campden Tablets) is primarily used as an anti oxidising and sanitising addition in wine and cider making but it will stun yeast if added in quantity. Potassium Sorbate is a fermentation stopper / yeast killer. So for future I would use products with these things in though supposedly you can get rid of them by boiling which you've done.

If it isn't fermenting I think the bigger issue could be yeast nutrition and oxygen. An ale yeast needs some stuff other than sugar to feed on to get going as well as a well oxygenated wort. Apple juice doesn't have much by way of yeast nutrient in it and I suspect is also harder to get some air into (the usual vigorous stir of ale wort before pitching).

If you have some the add some yeast nutrient to your mix, give it a stir and maybe that could help it. Better to use a cider yeast for cider so the other option is a quick trip to your local home brew place to get some and try getting it going with that. Whilst that's going on at least the sulphite will have had time to dissipate.

thanks, set my mind a little!

initially when I put the original yeast in, I did put arround 20-30 teaspoons of wilko yeast nutrient in


As well as this, I repurchase yeast last night using both ale and wine yeast AND more nutrient

 

[Sammy391]

Bump

many other people wanna help a noob out?

 

[johncrobinson]

Sorbate is a VERY efficient yeast stopper.ESPECIALLY if you added dried yeast directly. If its not fermenting try making a starter bottle and adding that. I would NOT add any more nutrient as you have allready gone a bit OTT,and excess will not taste nice.

Think of dried yeast as like a delicate newborn baby.!!!!!
Forget what the kits say and when making wine:-
ALLWAYS REPEAT ALLWAYS USE A STARTER.

Also ale yeast is not the best choice for fermenting fruit juice (different sugar profile to beer wort)

When i make wine from supermarket juice its fermenting like the clappers in a few hours so if the above works you should not have long to wait.

 

[johncrobinson]

Thinking futher about what i have previously posted.With all the time that has allready passed plus the time to make a starter,Its possible that your must has started to spoil,But give it a go anyway.

 

[Sammy391]

Perfect! Thanks

 

[johncrobinson]

Also you should not have to boil juice from cartons.As this can impart a "cooked " flavour to your wine.!
not very nice.
The juice in the carton should allready be clean enough to use right away.
Slosh it about to let the air get at it JUST before adding the starter.

If this your first attempt dont give up,Winemaking is a great hobby.

If you have a local home brew shop get a tub of grape tannin (only use very little ) rather than tea bags.
Unless you want the tea notes in the wine.

Champagne yeast ec1118 is excellent for apple wine and will ferment to 16-18% alc if required
It is also one of (if not the most) "toughest" wine yeasts around.
Best though to aim for 12-14% alc at first.( You need to use special sugar feeding technique to get 18%)
Use a WINE YEAST some wine yeasts are delicate hence my reccomendation for ec1118.

MOST IMPORTANT learn how to make and ALLWAYS use a starter.
Its a race between the yeast and the bad bugs.!!
The starter is just that a HEADSTART.!!!! (The yeast in the packet is all dried out and SLEEPING.)

Dont overdo the yeast nutient:> When fermenting pure fruit juice 2 heaped teaspoons per 5gal should be enough for normal
strength wine.

Welcome to winemaking.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If you have a local home brew shop get a tub of grape tannin (only use very little ) rather than tea bags.
Unless you want the tea notes in the wine.

I used powdered tannin once and it clumped so i carried on using tea instead i have never heard anyone say it gives the wine a tea taste and a lot of members have made a lot of gallons over the years.

MOST IMPORTANT learn how to make and ALLWAYS use a starter.
Its a race between the yeast and the bad bugs.!!
The starter is just that a HEADSTART.!!!! (The yeast in the packet is all dried out and SLEEPING.)

Do you mean re-hydrate or starter?

Today you have advised members to "ALWAYS re-hydrate yeast" and now "ALWAYS use a starter" when in fact as i explained in the other thread members DO NOT need to do either, i DO NOT want new members already struggling to take in the basics thinking you have to do this, every wine kit i have made (and i have made many) has instructed me to pitch the dry yeast into the FV and every kit i have ever made has finished fermentation with no problems, by all means advise members that using re-hydrated yeast will speed up fermentation starting but please do not make out that this is something they must do if they have cleaned and sanitised their equipment properly the risk of infection at the start is so small it's not worth worrying about.

.

 

[johncrobinson]

I honestly dont think making a starter is rocket science.Baking sourdough bread is far more complicated and time consuming than making a starter.
So is learning how to use a hydrometer and interpret the readings

Piching the yeast direct into the must obviously works.I dont deny it.
If people wish only to follow kit instuctions (and they can be quite comprehesive) to the letter fine really fine but then why join this forun if they wish to learn nothing more about the art of winemaking from members some with not years but decades of experience under the belt.

Fact remains using a starter is THE BEST way to get a wine working BAR NONE !!
With direct pitching also it seems a lot of inexperienced members seem worried by how long it takes to see anything happening or not.
They will not have any of these concerns and worry when using a starter.


The yeast makes the wine look after the yeast and it will look after you.This is all that i am trying to get across.

Re-hydration is of course the first of two steps in making a starter and simply no more than mixing the sachet of yeast with a dash of cooled boiled water from the kettle in a clean bottle and allowing it to stand for a short while.10-15 mins
The second step is to add a bit of cooled boiled fruit juice about 1/2 pint in which a tablespoon of sugar has been disolved.
plug the top of the bottle with a ball of tissue stand the bottle in a warm room and give it a swirl every few hrs
Use next day.
Thats really all that anyone really needs to know or do.

I too do not want to put beginners and newcomers off

However having got all that off my chest and i notice chippy you DO go out of your way to help beginners and have thousands of posts to your credit,In the interest of harmony I WILL NOT MENTION STARTERS AGAIN.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This is a video i followed when i recently pitched the sachet of stabiliser instead of yeast i put the original yeast in straight away then next day bought another sachet and re-hydrated it, the wine finished as normal.

I made mine with bottled water at 30c following the instructions below.

 

[Sammy391]

Hi guys

quick update:

the airlock started bubbling early hours of this morning and continues to do so - 7 days after the original yeast pitch (2 extra sachets since)

so I presume the Apple juice etc is now fermenting?

bubbles are more or less 3/4 quick every 2-5 mins

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Sounds like its doing its thing. :thumba:

 

[johncrobinson]

Yup its going.!!

 

[Sammy391]

Thanks again guys -
Still bubbling away well , although it’s giving off a very eggy smell (sulphur?) - is this normal or does it suggest a lack of nutrient?

thanks

 

[johncrobinson]

The sulphur smell sounds like the kiss of death.
NO its not normal.Infact it indicates your wine has SERIOUSLY gone wrong somewhare.
Sorry!!!!!

 

[johncrobinson]

nutrient at the START of fermnentition helps to prevent this
It can also be caused by fermenting at too high a temp.
In any case I fear your wine is now spoiled Wheather it end up drinkable or not i dont know,But it will never turn out as a cht la fete.