NB's bunker brewery build

[Northern Brewer]

Home of Love hearts and Refreshers :lol: :lol:

My dad used to deliver for Matlows years ago - I think he got the sack for some reason, must find out, probaly eating the stock!

 

[graysalchemy]

I went to school with one of the Matlows he always brought in big bags of sweets on his birthday.

Unfortunately we were all into wham bars and not refreshers :lol: :lol:

 

[dennisdk2000]

I'm originally from New Mills near Stockport so maybe I'm an honourary Stopfordian

Small world, I used to live in Stockport, now live in New Mills!

Dennis

 

[Northern Brewer]

I was born there but dragged up in Doncaster as my dad got a job in the Ford factory there
I used to visit releatives and stay there during some of the school holidays

best bits I remember are
Proper oatcakes from the butchers - fantastic with bacon, eggs and brown sauce
The Tors - great when your kids
Fishing at furnace vale, disley dam etc.
The Fox inn over above Strines

Haven't been there for years now, all my relatives have either died or moved away.

 

[Darcey]

Haven't been there for years now, all my relatives have either died or moved away.

Sounds like an excuse for a long awaited Northern Kneesup! :drunk: :drink:

 

[Northern Brewer]

Its been a while since I gave an update, the first brew revealed quite a few rough edges with the new brewery and the lack of FV temp control was a big hole. Here's a few photos of the FV cupboard for the 120 Litre conical. Not easy to fit this in a fridge and I had an insulated panel spare so I decided to make it from scratch.
Here's the framework made out of galvanised slotted angle off of ebay. I used a couple of bits of 4" x 2" on the wall to bridge the pipes and cable then screwed the angle to that, then I raised the whole thing on some M12 threaded bar with feet so I can still sluice out the brewery.

Here it is with sides on, the insulated panel is 70mm thick so shodul be plenty. I'm waiting for some off-cuts for the front and top so will use some kingspan sheets for now.

Here's the inside, there is a 150W tube heater at the bottom I have used two temperature controls together. The first is a good old mechanical thermostat that I can set to something like 24c, this will control the air temp. The FV will also have a probe run from a PID which can be set to say 20c. Both are in series so if the FV or the air meets temp the power gets cut. The idea is that its a gentle heat and it has a fail safe and I can use an existing PID/SSR in my control box.

Here it is with the FV and probe. The PT100 probe is 500mm long so is able to reach down to smaller brew lengths.

Cheers
NB

 

[Baz Chaz]

:clap: :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

Nice job NB

 

[mixale]

Even a big American fridge wouldn't be big enough for those 120lt monsters!
Build it yourself is your only option unless you have space and money for a walk-in chiller room.

One small point - condensation for the electrics might be an issue if you're cooling in there.
Rotate the heater so the cord in is at the bottom and any moisture will drip off the U in the cable.

Great setup with all that space. :clap:

 

[Northern Brewer]

One small point - condensation for the electrics might be an issue if you're cooling in there.
Rotate the heater so the cord in is at the bottom and any moisture will drip off the U in the cable.

Thanks Mixale, good point, good practise to stop wort ingress too, I did it with the socket and thermostat, I'll extend the cable a little so I can turn it.

Not sure about chilling yet as its in a cellar and the temp is never higher than 14c in summer and about 12c in winter, at least when I've measured it. If I have to cool the FV due to heat generated by fermentation, the problem I have is how to use the background temp it in a controlled way.. :hmm: not sure I'll need cooling at all, the PT100 will turn off power if the FV temp climbs and even if the FV cupboard is well lagged, the heat will leak away due to the low backgrond temp, could always replace the top of the FV cupboard with something a bit thinner so heat doesn't build up.

I was walking around the garden centre the other day saw a plastic potting tray and had a eureka moment. Perfect for under the FV for catching drips when taking off the trub from the cold break and sampling the beer to test the gravity. Even better, perfect for bottling. Here it is under the FV for now.

Cheers
NB

 

[Vossy1]

the problem I have is how to use the background temp it in a controlled way..

A fan (pc/bathroom) to suck air into the cabinet with one of those closing flap type vent covers to close off when not in use mounted near the base of the cabinet :hmm:

not sure I'll need cooling at all, the PT100 will turn off power if the FV temp climbs and even if the FV cupboard is well lagged, the heat will leak away due to the low backgrond temp, could always replace the top of the FV cupboard with something a bit thinner so heat doesn't build up.

Worth trying but I think you'll be surprised by the heat is generated by a ferment at it's peak, I still had to cool 46 ltr fermenting batches in a garage that was -2 deg c in winter the cupboard was lagged with 25mm kingspan.

 

[Northern Brewer]

the problem I have is how to use the background temp it in a controlled way..

A fan (pc/bathroom) to suck air into the cabinet with one of those closing flap type vent covers to close off when not in use mounted near the base of the cabinet :hmm:

Genius! I'm building the ducting at the moment for the boiler which is right next to the FV cupboard, I could move the ducting to a spigot on top of the FV cupboard and control it with a probe/PID. I may need a diffferent PID for cooling (I don't think the 10 quid jobbiesI use have a cooling option on the version I have), an Auber one might do it. Alternativey one of the usual controllers that are used for fridges, however I think they are not PT100 so probably need a long K type probe too and I'e alredy splashed out for 2 long PT100 probes.

 

[Vossy1]

however I think they are not PT100

Correct, they are NTC

 

[Northern Brewer]

Seeing as I have 2 x 500mm PT100 probes, I could use both and have one on the heating circuit using my existing PIDS and one on the cooling circuit using an Auber PID :hmm: The heating loop wouldn't kick in until the FV contents got below 20c so as long as the PID/probes are calibrated and there is a couple of degrees between the settings then I woudlnt get into a race condition where the heating and cooling were competing with each other.

 

[Vossy1]

You know you'll end up getting some NTC's in shiny :lol: it happens to us all :whistle:

there is a couple of degrees between the settings then I woudlnt get into a race condition where the heating and cooling were competing with each other.

True but a couple of degrees can make a big difference to taste/yeast.
I'd try your environment for cooling 1st, as you said, and see what happens :hmm:

 

[Northern Brewer]

You know you'll end up getting some NTC's in shiny :lol: it happens to us all :whistle:

there is a couple of degrees between the settings then I woudlnt get into a race condition where the heating and cooling were competing with each other.

True but a couple of degrees can make a big difference to taste/yeast.
I'd try your environment for cooling 1st, as you said, and see what happens :hmm:

Hi JP. I'll monitor it on my next brew and see what happens, as I'm still waiting for some more insulated panels I'll wait and do anything more intrusive until I have the materials to complete the job. Can't find long NTC probes even at TC Direct or http://www.southerntemp.co.uk/instruments/ako/ako149XX.htm]Southern Temperature Sensors[/url] unless you know different ;-)

Cheers
NB

 

[Vossy1]

Can't find long NTC probes even at TC Direct or Southern Temperature Sensors unless you know different ;-)

:whistle: ....might do :lol: They made mine for me, the invoice just says 10K (curve 8) thermistor sensor assemblies, mine are 6mm x 200mm 316 ss, £13.80 each at the time, also had one 450mm in length made £17.30. Jamesb asked me a while ago what spec I had them made to I didn't know, just sent the STC100 gubbins over and they sorted it out. I've tested them against my PT100, all is fine

 

[Northern Brewer]

Excellent, just have to tell James that I need a probe as long as Vossys then :grin:

I've started on the Cornie/Gas set up as well, I mounted a bracket on the wall so I can mount the co2 cylinder off the floor so I can sluice out the brewery without moving it, the cornies I will have to move.

I've added additional angle to the FV cupboard so I can have 4 shelves of bottles for secondary fermentation, or several cornies and 2 shelves of bottles.

Next post will be the PSUs for the solar pumps etc.

Cheers
NB

 

[Vossy1]

Gr8 to see the gmb and corny relocated

Excellent, just have to tell James that I need a probe as long as Vossys then

Is he doing them then, I'd be interested to know if he agrees with STC on the probe type out of interest :hmm:

 

[Northern Brewer]

Here's a brew in the FV cupboard, just using kingspan sheets I had spare from the last DIY job, will be using them to insulate the brewery ceiling with them once I have the new panels

The tube heater is just keeping pace with the job at the moment, I left a few gaps at the bottom on purpose as the fermentation hasn't gone exothermic yet and I'm away for 3 days so want to limit the extent the FV can overheat. I do have a cheap USB temp probe I can rig up to a PC for data logging but would mean drilling holes in the ceiling to drop the USB cable down so I can use a PC in my office above but I'm pressed for time so that's a job for another day.

I've done some more work on the pumps. here's a shot of the two solar pumps mounted on a couple of plastic boxes and wired to a jack socket in the bottom. They are mounted on the table legs so lower than my HLT, copper and mash tun to aid priming.

The jack socket is wired back to the PSU, I bought 2 x tattoo PSUs from China off of ebay, not bad but they can't really handle the load and the voltage can drop so you lose flow. OK if your just pumping from one vessel to another through 1/2" but not when going through the heat exchanger then up to the top of the mash tun so I don't think they are quite man enough. Good for when you have a slow flow rate into the mash tun and out to the boiler during sparging as you can match up the flow in and out across the two pumps easily so I will live with these for now. The jack plug in the foot socket is a short as the PSU expects to see the tattooists foot pedal switch. The top right PID labelled copper I have hijacked to control the tube heater in the FV cupboard hence the 20c setting. I have a spare SSD and PID so will wire this up later.

Cheers
NB