New to AG and need help batch sparging

[DJBigPhil]

Hi there. This is my first post so please go easy but I am in need of some help and hopefully some kind soul on here can lend me some.


So I am relatively new to AG brewing (on my 6th batch). As part of my set up, i built my own picnic cooler mash tun (with 29 litre cooler from Argos) with tap and bazooka filter. Overall, it maintains heat very well and on the face of it, works great but I am finding that I am getting huge variations in OG. In my most recent batch, I was expecting OG of 1.059 and ended up with 1.038 so something is going awry. I am pretty certain that my whole mashing/sparging process is just not great for my set up so that is where I am looking for help.


In my most recent brew day, I was following a recipe for a traditional English Golden Ale. All quantities and specifics all run through Beer Smith so I know it’s not just down to human error on my grain bill and water quantities.


Below is a broad outline of my mash/sparging steps:

• Mashed with 15 litres 75 degree water for 1 hour (temp in mash tun was a constant 66 degrees)
  
  
• Gentle stir
  
  
• Vorlauf until clear
  
  
• Emptied in to kettle as quickly as possible until flow stopped
  
  
• Added another 16 litres sparge water at around 80 degrees
  
  
• Gently stirred
  
  
• Left for 15 minutes
  
  
• Gently stirred again
  
  
• Vorlauf until clear
  
  
• Drained as quickly as possible
  
  
• Boiled as normal in kettle

I have previously stirred vigorously when sparging to do what felt like squeezing as much out of the wort as possible. Whilst this was more labour intensive and made Vorlauf pointless because the entire grain bed was constantly disturbed, I end up with something far nearer target gravity. I am just not sure whether that by doing this though, i’m adding a load more tannins and affecting the flavour (I keep thinking about the analogy of squeezing a tea bag rather than letting it brew more slowly). Furthermore, as I am using a bazooka anyway and not many husks get through, what would be the problem stirring constantly as the mash tun drains? Surely this will eliminate any dead spots in the grain and regardless, any additional husks will be filtered out of the bazooka in my kettle prior to hitting the fermentor.


Feels like this should be a relatively common problem with people using this type of set up so hopefully there is a best practice that I can follow which will help me reach >75% efficiency every time and allow me to be consistent. Any help appreciated!

 

[Manxnorton]

I got so cought up we hitting the %'s instead of enjoying my brewday...eventually I stopped worrying...
hence I bought a GF.
sorry I'm no good for help, I had a three tier system...but if you want paragraphs on woffle you cant understand...an expert be on soon.
looks like you not happy we the Mash, specially the sparge...why not try fly sparge next instead of batch...documented that fly will up the % efficiencies.
your doing the process right for what I can read...but for ME...time spent on 'do-in' and not rushing it was chuffed we the results.
but as I said I used to fly sparge....maybe the prob lyes on batch sparging?
you said it hold the temp (mash tun) hitting them temps n calculations can drastically effect the SG post boil, and eventually post boil.
it is hard getting what I mean to say.
hope somebody can answer you.
ATB
Bri

an expiations of my waffle down on my signature lol

 

[-Bezza-]

I can't comment on the process but thought it might be worth sharing a link to the Brewhouse Efficiency calculator, which I was using yesterday to check my efficiency. Might be worth having a look at what levels you're hitting, based on the grain used and quantity of wort.

The thing I noticed was that temperature has a significant impact on the hydrometer reading, so make sure you've adjusted for that!

https://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

 

[Gerryjo]

You would need to specify what quantities of grain/type and target pre/post boil in litres.
I mash in a 52 litre mashtun with full volume which is usually 30 litres loosing between 4 to 6 litres for grain absorption depending on the size of the grain bill and aiming for 20 litres to the fermenter.
Best efficiency I ever got was 85% on an overnight mash though would normally achieve between 70/75 which is reasonable though recently started recirculating using a small pump and have noticed a difference.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

 

[Ciaran12s]

I fly sparged for a few brews and always missed OG by a good few points. I then went to batch sparging and consistency and effeciency have improved. Usually get 75-80% effeciency.

My batch sparge method is exactly the same as yours apart from some small differences.

I aim for 25 to FV. So I mash with 17L to a roughly 6kg grain bill. I then do two batch sparges of 11L each.

The other difference is I don't drain as quickly as possible. I don't drain particularly slowly but say maybe 10 minutes to drain after vorlaufing.

 

[Oneiroi]

I brew BIAB so don’t know about sparging methods, but have you noticed any pattern with the grains used in low batches? Which grain, where it was bought, crushed etc?

I think there was a recent thread where someone having problems with really low efficiency on a couple of batches realised they had bought their base grain whole rather than crushed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DJBigPhil]

Thanks for this. I'm really not getting too caught up (yet) on the effeciencies but I'm just trying to be a little more consistent in my approach so I don't see these wild unexplanable swings

 

[DJBigPhil]

You would need to specify what quantities of grain/type and target pre/post boil in litres.
I mash in a 52 litre mashtun with full volume which is usually 30 litres loosing between 4 to 6 litres for grain absorption depending on the size of the grain bill and aiming for 20 litres to the fermenter.
Best efficiency I ever got was 85% on an overnight mash though would normally achieve between 70/75 which is reasonable though recently started recirculating using a small pump and have noticed a difference.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

ok that's useful thanks

 

[DJBigPhil]

I brew BIAB so don’t know about sparging methods, but have you noticed any pattern with the grains used in low batches? Which grain, where it was bought, crushed etc?

I think there was a recent thread where someone having problems with really low efficiency on a couple of batches realised they had bought their base grain whole rather than crushed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense thanks. I'm using all of the same grain each time that I'm getting from BrewUK so I don't think it's this. But I did use part of two bags which had been opened (and sealed + stored in a cool place) from a previous brew. Will the grain quality decline once opened. Could this be a factor?

 

[DJBigPhil]

I fly sparged for a few brews and always missed OG by a good few points. I then went to batch sparging and consistency and effeciency have improved. Usually get 75-80% effeciency.

My batch sparge method is exactly the same as yours apart from some small differences.

I aim for 25 to FV. So I mash with 17L to a roughly 6kg grain bill. I then do two batch sparges of 11L each.

The other difference is I don't drain as quickly as possible. I don't drain particularly slowly but say maybe 10 minutes to drain after vorlaufing.

This is a useful insight. Many thanks

 

[Oneiroi]

I'm using all of the same grain each time that I'm getting from BrewUK so I don't think it's this. But I did use part of two bags which had been opened (and sealed + stored in a cool place) from a previous brew. Will the grain quality decline once opened. Could this be a factor?

Someone else might know better but I think this is pretty unlikely. I suppose age might reduce the number enzymes that convert the starch to sugars but if sealed and stored in a cool place my gut says it would take a long time to cause significant problems (not very scientific I know).

If you ruled out everything else mentioned above you could always start doing iodine tests for your mash to make sure you have good conversion, and extend your mash if it turns out a batch isn't finished after an hour.

I haven't done one yet so I might misunderstand the point of them, but maybe someone else confirm whether that's a good idea?

Edit: Theres a discussion about diastatic power and grain age here which seems to support the idea that it's possible but unlikely to matter in the short-mid term https://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/21833/does-diastatic-power-reduce-with-age-old-grain

 

[-Bezza-]

Do you have a copy of the Beersmith recipe and water requirements that you could post?

Also, what temperature was the wort when you took the hydrometer reading?

 

[simon12]

Do a 2 stage batch sparge like what Ciaran said and a stir halfway through the mash could help.