Price Hikes

[hoppyscotty]

I have a feeling they will all join them on that wagon , at the end of the day they need to make money if prices from their suppliers go up they have little choice but to pass it on.

What bandwagon is that? All the elements impacting our hobby has increased in price significantly so why would you think they are shafting us and not responding to genuine increases in the cost of things? Think it's a bit unfair to suggest they're being opportunistic and profiteering. They're well aware that they are the more expensive option but try to offer value in other ways...but people don't always value value. If that's the case then there are other options.

CML will operate a compeltely different model and maybe they stocked up just before the main price hikes...but the increased prices will hit them too at some point...its inevitable or they'll go out of business...they wont be selling stuff at a loss.

Depends alot on their business model of course. MM offers a huge variety of products and options which costs more in terms of overheads...if you narrow down your offerings then of course your operating model is cheaper, at the expense of not offering variety...its the classic Sainsbury's/Tesco vs. Aldi/Lidl comparison - you want to choose from ten different brands of baked beans then you're going to pay more. Henry Ford pioneered it with his "you can have any colour you want as long as it's Black".

I personally purchase from many different suppliers depending on what I'm after at any given point and like having the variety that MM have on hand even if there is a premium to it.

 

[samale]

Everyone as seen a price increase but worth checking every order as there are offers to be had. Mt recent 5 brew order was with GEB, OK I had to compromise on a couple of malt choices but was worth it. Shame DPD ripped the box. Managed to find the malt in the back of rhe van but two packs of yeast missing. GEB were good and communicated throughout Easter weekend. Said they would send the yeast out to me but have since asked that I add them to my next order, which is very annoying because I don't plan to order for another 5 brews and needed those two yeasts. Guess they didn't want to pay the extra postage.

That's poor, I would of declined and asked for the yeast to be sent. Not exactly a bulk delivery fee

 

[An Ankoù]

What bandwagon is that? All the elements impacting our hobby has increased in price significantly so why would you think they are shafting us and not responding to genuine increases in the cost of things? Think it's a bit unfair to suggest they're being opportunistic and profiteering. They're well aware that they are the more expensive option but try to offer value in other ways...but people don't always value value. If that's the case then there are other options.

CML will operate a compeltely different model and maybe they stocked up just before the main price hikes...but the increased prices will hit them too at some point...its inevitable or they'll go out of business...they wont be selling stuff at a loss.

Depends alot on their business model of course. MM offers a huge variety of products and options which costs more in terms of overheads...if you narrow down your offerings then of course your operating model is cheaper, at the expense of not offering variety...its the classic Sainsbury's/Tesco vs. Aldi/Lidl comparison - you want to choose from ten different brands of baked beans then you're going to pay more. Henry Ford pioneered it with his "you can have any colour you want as long as it's Black".

I personally purchase from many different suppliers depending on what I'm after at any given point and like having the variety that MM have on hand even if there is a premium to it.

Bravo
I'll throw in my lot with those who believe in keeping prices reasonable and, while looking at their own stability as a business, are not using the present situation to add another layer of margin above that they would have otherwise expected.
Your comparisons with sainsbury/lidl and especially with Ford are complete red herrings imp, they sound as if they might be valid but no. You would have had less of a choice in Harrods! HBC has a very good choice of very good brands, CML offers a relatively specialised service.
It never fails to amaze me that in this thread and in similar ones on this forum, there are so many who are prepared to jump to the defence of the profiteers and there's very little celebration of those who actually care about their customers in the way that Shane at HBC or Steve at CML do.
MM do have some cutting edge products, eg their distribution of yeast cultures on slides. I don't expect to subsidise that while paying for my hops though.
So let's get real, a company with the turnover of MM has more buying clout than smaller businesses and I ere none of that being passed on to the punter.

 

[An Ankoù]

That's poor, I would of declined and asked for the yeast to be sent. Not exactly a bulk delivery fee

By comparison, DPD lost my first order from HBC. HBC were about to send out a duplicate order when I had a call from a stranger a couple of villages down the road asking if I could remove a heavy (30 kg) package which had been left in their conservatory. The driver had even forged my signature. I had to phone HBC to ask them not to send the replacement order.

 

[matt.]

If MM have put them up i am sure they wont be the only ones as the price of everything is going up.

@borischarlton

Just rain and snow come down

 

[An Ankoù]

Just rain and snow come down

You can't count on prices coming down, even if there's a glut. So best support those who minimise their price-hikes in the first place.

 

[MickDundee]

I swapped back to the homebrew company for my last order. They were cheaper even before the 10% flash sale that I was lucky enough to happen upon.

Used Geterbrewed mostly before that and MM occasionally but they were always more expensive. I buy base malt in 25kg sacks which lasts a good while. The cost of large sacks is fairly similar but the real difference is in the price of hops. MM and GEB are £2-3 more expensive per 100g over THBC. For instance amarillo is £5.95 at THBC and £9.10 at MM. Cascade is £3.95 at THBC and £5.89 at MM.

I usually use about 500g of hops in my 30L batches so it makes a real difference to the total cost.

I usually put all the things I want to order into my basket at THBC, MM, GEB and (more recently) Brew-Day and go with whoever is the cheapest.

My last order was the first time in 2+ years that GEB wasn’t cheapest and I went with THBC.

CML are great for when I have a last minute change of plans (was craving a NEIPA recently and didn’t have enough ingredients; and my brew club have set an August challenge so I’ll need speciality malts and yeast for that) or if I need some extra bits to make a user-upper brew before I put a big order in elsewhere.

 

[Sadfield]

If we're talking AG kit prices, then a big portion of the cost is based on a service. The service is knowing how to formulate and prepare a kit and the inconvenience of have it readily available for sale. Regardless of raw material cost. If the cost of living goes up, then so does that service.

 

[Clarence]

HBC is my supplier of choice. Not British, I know, but I'm still not going to pay more. If all I needed to order was malt, then it would be Pop's from Crafty Malsters, it's lovely stuff, and even with shipping it's only £39.

 

[Leon103]

That's poor, I would of declined and asked for the yeast to be sent. Not exactly a bulk delivery fee

I did. Originally offered a refund. I refused saying I would need to re-order with them any way. Asked for replacement and they agreed. Then had a answer phone message asking if I could add them to my next order instead. Senseless

 

[borischarlton]

Hey,

I do try to stay out of threads like this, it's not really my place to comment as we run the business correctly and charge the prices that are required to keep us profitable. I absolutely love my job and what we have succeeded in creating but don't shy away from the fact we have to make a profit. Recent business failures in the sector, and wider sector, show this very clearly. We treat and pack the ingredients exactly as it should be and there is a cost to that.

What I do take objection to is being called a profiteer, we are not taking advantage of any "situation" ( or indeed bandwagon ). The price of raw ingredients, consumable and power has risen dramatically. We made price increases at the start of the year when our new malt prices came into force, one of our maltsters has suggested that there maybe a price decrease mid year which is a very unusual situation. We will pass that on if it happens.

It's fantastic that we have our supporters on this and other social networks, we send out hundreds of orders a day. On the flip side it is very obvious that some members feel the need to shout down that support every single time our name is mentioned. That's ok, it's a free forum. We will continue with the very same ethos that we started with. Only selling the best, treated exactly as it should be. Yes, because of that we will be more expensive than some but we know that our customers appreciate it.

Cheers

 

[Leon103]

Hey,

I do try to stay out of threads like this, it's not really my place to comment as we run the business correctly and charge the prices that are required to keep us profitable. I absolutely love my job and what we have succeeded in creating but don't shy away from the fact we have to make a profit. Recent business failures in the sector, and wider sector, show this very clearly. We treat and pack the ingredients exactly as it should be and there is a cost to that.

What I do take objection to is being called a profiteer, we are not taking advantage of any "situation" ( or indeed bandwagon ). The price of raw ingredients, consumable and power has risen dramatically. We made price increases at the start of the year when our new malt prices came into force, one of our maltsters has suggested that there maybe a price decrease mid year which is a very unusual situation. We will pass that on if it happens.

It's fantastic that we have our supporters on this and other social networks, we send out hundreds of orders a day. On the flip side it is very obvious that some members feel the need to shout down that support every single time our name is mentioned. That's ok, it's a free forum. We will continue with the very same ethos that we started with. Only selling the best, treated exactly as it should be. Yes, because of that we will be more expensive than some but we know that our customers appreciate it.

Cheers

Well done. I would be worried if you weren't trying to make a profit. Each business is different, different overheads and therefore didn't profit margins. Don't listen to those on hear, half have never run a business

 

[Clint]

Having a small retail business which is Mrs Clints baby I do hear the gripes concerning price increases,even tiny ones!
But as owd Charlton says we're in it to make a living...not run a charity but he's also very right in concerning the value added to the service where customer care,quality products and getting it right count. You can be the cheapest out there but if you're sh1t3 it means nothing.

 

[An Ankoù]

Having a small retail business which is Mrs Clints baby I do hear the gripes concerning price increases,even tiny ones!
But as owd Charlton says we're in it to make a living...not run a charity but he's also very right in concerning the value added to the service where customer care,quality products and getting it right count. You can be the cheapest out there but if you're sh1t3 it means nothing.

I think we're of the same old school that says if you offer a service then getting it right is part of the service. There shouldn't be a correlation between low price and sh1t service. If you can't afford to provide the service you offer then you shouldn't be in business.
Fortunately none of the retailers mentioned in this thread fall into that category. All, even the less expensive, offer excellent service, and I'm surprised to hear about the postage issue above as that wasn't my experience when they omitted an item from an order which arrived in otherwise perfect condition. I think those more reasonable retailers, too, should take issue with the presupposition that because they're a bit cheaper, their service and customer care must necessarily be less than the most expensive. It's simply not true.
Of course businesses can charge whatever they like and whatever they think they can get away with, but I don't buy into the idea that they're offering a better product or a better service for the extra dosh.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

What bandwagon is that? All the elements impacting our hobby has increased in price significantly so why would you think they are shafting us and not responding to genuine increases in the cost of things? Think it's a bit unfair to suggest they're being opportunistic and profiteering. They're well aware that they are the more expensive option but try to offer value in other ways...but people don't always value value. If that's the case then there are other options.

"What bandwagon is that"
The one mentioned in the post below which i replied to, i never suggested "they're being opportunistic and profiteering" i was actually sticking up for them saying if suppliers put the cost up they will all have to do the same.

 

[An Ankoù]

hoppyscotty said:
What bandwagon is that? All the elements impacting our hobby has increased in price significantly so why would you think they are shafting us and not responding to genuine increases in the cost of things? Think it's a bit unfair to suggest they're being opportunistic and profiteering. They're well aware that they are the more expensive option but try to offer value in other ways...but people don't always value value. If that's the case then there are other options.

"People don't alway's value value". What does that mean?
Value for money might be offset by pleasantness and expertise of staff or a sumptuous showroom, for example, but it's difficult to see how that can be experienced in an online retail outlet. Having dealt with all the aforementioned, I can't say the helpfulness or expertise of the staff has been anything less than exemplary with all of them. So where is this added "value" you guys are so keen to defend? What does it subsist in?
Yes, everyone's been hit by price rises and they have to be passed on to the punter, unfortunately. But we have an interest in keeping suppliers reined in, too. rather than slavishly shrug our shoulders and proudly declare our helplessness. Are retailers doing that or are they just accepting the rises and passing them on? I haven't heard anyone say they're switching their basic maltster from one to another because they can pass on a saving, for example.
So again, what is this "value" that some of you claim that some suppliers offer and others do not?

 

[Simonh82]

What I do take objection to is being called a profiteer, we are not taking advantage of any "situation" ( or indeed bandwagon ). The price of raw ingredients, consumable and power has risen dramatically. We made price increases at the start of the year when our new malt prices came into force, one of our maltsters has suggested that there maybe a price decrease mid year which is a very unusual situation. We will pass that on if it happens.

I certainly hope my comments earlier weren't interpted as an accusation of profiteering. I was simply pointing out that there are clear price differences between the various online retailers. That's entirely understandable, as is the likelihood that customers will shop around for the best deal.

For what it's worth MM have always provided exceptional service and the quality of the ingredients and turn around time for orders is top class.

We would be fooling to think the price rises we've seen in all sectors wouldn't affect our hobby. That doesn't mean it isn't painful for those of us who brew at least partly for economic reasons.

Personally I view MM as a slightly premium option. They do far more by way of marketing/promotion/brewer education than the other retailers. They also stock the largest range of brewing equipment and all that warehouse space will surely cost. I hope they continue to be a successful business which drives innovation in the UK homebrewing sector but I also hope there are alternative suppliers out there doing their own thing.

 

[borischarlton]

@Simonh82 They weren't, no issue.

@An Ankoù We don't have a basic malt as such but Crisp used to be the cheapest malt on our website. Their increase was considerably more than some others, meaning we can now supply Simpsons cheaper than Crisp. So yes, it does happen.

 

[Clint]

Just to point out there are no dreadful suppliers mentioned...because you use them once!
Also I'll use Boris as an example...you order a sack of malt,you want it in 5x5kg bags....you also want smaller amounts of various other stuff...in whatever amount you want....all easy at the click of the button..at the other end one of his minions on the double quick and more than minimum wage I would bet has to get it done or risk getting beaten to a pulp by Boris Karloff with his rusty trombone behind his Bugatti Veron Bandwagon.

 

[RoboBrewBot5000]

For what it's worth, buying 25kg of grain from malt miller really dropped my costs compared to the local homebrew shop. I mostly buy my hops from CML which seem reasonable cost-wise for small quantities. As I've started to harvest and reuse yeast, I find my costs pre batch have really come down.

I do tend to brew fairly simple recipes and mostly lagers. I rarely brew a Neipa level hop bomb and I suppose this also keeps my costs down.

All in all, I reckon I spend less on brewing ingredients per batch now than I did a year ago.