Sodastream refilling woes - what anm I doing wrong?

[Nick Brown]

Hi all,

I hope someone with a little knowledge can resolve my frustrations!

I started my refill journey with an Adams Gas cylinder with an RPV, and a straight through adaptor (I didn’t know about RPVs then) and a newish sodastream cylinder.

There’s no dip tube/siphon stripes or marks on the donor cylinder.

The first two fills when the donor cylinder was inverted and the valve was cracked slowly netted me about 200g each time of CO2 in the pre-frozen sodastream cylinder.

After those initial fills (and usage), now I can hardly get any more than about 5grams of gas in. I press the valve centre on the cylinder to empty out all CO2 in advance and always freeze the cylinder. Every time I hear the gas start flowing then it stops after a few seconds. I tried waiting up to 10 minutes.

I thought that it may have been the sodastream cylinder so bought a new refillable brass valve for the cylinder. That didn’t work. I tried the original sodastream valve again that didn’t work and whatever little gas went in slowly hissed out of the valve once disconnected from the adapter.

I then realised that I had an RPV on the donor, so bought an adapter with an RPV pin. Still no joy.

I have also tried filling un-inverted.



So I have spent £107 and only managed the equivalent of 1 x full sodastream cylinder refill.

Maybe £10 a refill at Wilkinson’s doesn’t seem so bad.



Has anyone got any ideas please?



Thanks

 

[peebee]

I guess you've read my battle to get these to fill?

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/refill-sodastream-bottles.83180/post-839298
(From that post #20 onwards - don't skip through, there are errors covered in later posts).

But you do seem to be doing all that?

But one thing you do talk of that might be relevant: You mention "gas" a lot and "hear the gas start flowing then it stops after a few seconds": You should not be interested with transferring "gas", you are transferring "liquid". Make sure the liquid can flow (no air lock or expecting liquid to flow uphill).



And always remember: The operation is full of potential danger! High pressure gas obviously, and escaping gas causing very cold temperatures (skin instantly sticks to materials at such temperatures).

 

[Nick Brown]

Thanks for your fast reply PeeBee,
I have read though but still can't find what I am doing wrong!

This may seem like a stupid question... My first adapter did work a couple of times and netted 200g.
In my second, (with the rpv pin), that is the only pin. There is nothing to depress the valve on the sodastream cylinder - I was under the impression that the pressure from the donor would force the liguid past the valve. Have I made a stupid assumption, and if so, why don't the valves have such a pin?

Thanks for your help

 

[peebee]

The pin on the Sodastream bottle must be depressed. Pressure from the donor will only depress the pin if the pressure in the donor is greater than in the receiver. It will be for a moment because the receiver is chilled (hence you got "5g" transferred).

Note: If you depress the pin too much it will seal again! Needs a "Goldilocks" press! The guy struggling with the adapter in the post below has an adapter with an (externally) adjustable pin to do that press (and also shut off the receiving cylinder once done). My adapter is internally adjusted, like many others, but a bit more fiddly to get right at the beginning.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/issue-with-deluxe-sodastream-cylinder-adapter.103257/

 

[RoomWithABrew]

You may have watched the video already.


The tiny top pin cylinders don't have the problem of re sealing after initiating the refill that the larger button ones do.

Fire extinguisher cylinders have dip tubes and you can hear it rattle if you shake your main cylinder. Beer CO2 cylinder don't so will need to be inverted so you get liquid into the soda stream cylinder.
When your main cylinder loses pressure you get a smaller soda stream fill.

I'm using the old cylinder filling adapter and as @peebee says a bit more fiddly, but it works.
10 pounds isn't cheap when you factor in 5kg of CO2 costs about 35 pounds ( down here) .That's more than 200 pounds worth of soda stream gas.

 

[LeeH]

If you press the pin in too far you can damage it so when you take the bottle off the liquid will just gas off out of the valve. Only turn the pin just enough to get flow.

Which adapter do you have? Also confirming if you have a dip tube or not would be helpful. Any bottle with a tube will be marked somewhere, speak to Adams.

Indeed up with a bottle with a dip tube in error and it froze up my regulator very quickly. It was marked by 2 plastics discs on the valve instead of the normal 1.

 

[MashBag]

I used to run a paintball site. We used to fill dozens of cylinders every tournament.

We used a three valve tee adapter (easily built)

Test the slave opens with the filler valve on.
Test the co2 is exiting the master cylinder.

Ear muffs and gauntlet gloves should always be worn. You need digital scales, to monitor the fill and a coke can.

 

[MashBag]

I still refill all my propane and that doesn't present issues like this either. Do you still have pressure in the master cylinder? Can you remove the RPG?

 

[Nick Brown]

Love the RPV RPG typo - very apt for the paintballers

Sorry, been a soooo busy with wok and unable to get time to reply...

In detail.....

This WAS my sodastream bottle valve

This is the donor

and this was the first plain straight through adapter

Got 2 200g fills then reduced down to 5g fills after that (see numbers below) and the bottle valve started leaking after filling after a couple of fills.

So I bought a new bottle valve that's supposed to be suitable for refilling:

No luck wth that -

So I thought it might be the donor RPV causing the issue so I bought another adapter with RPV pin

And still it doesn't work

Reading your suggestions above - maybe, initially the donor pressure was enough to fill but then rapidly not enough as the fill amounts in grams for each successive fill are as follows

250

211

40

32

24

20

20

15

14

12

Hence the plea for assistance.

So I guess you are saying that I need yet another adapter with 2 pins? one for donor RPV and one for bottle valve?

Can anyone suggest the right one?

Thanks for your help

Hopefully this thread will assist someone else.


Kind Regards

NIck

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've had little success with this and just given up. More hassle than it's worth. I find the only success I got was to completely empty the Sodastream bottle to atmospheric and only then was successful in getting a fill, and then couldn't fill it anywhere near full. I've kept hold of the bottles for the odd occasion I want to take a keg to a party but that is a fairly rare event...My preference would now be to just bottle a batch.....just need someone to invite me to a party now

 

[MashBag]

I can't (pleased I spelled that right ) see why this setup shouldn't work. But it is very uncontrollable, because you have no valves or hose.

This isn't complex, but it is harder on that rig.
Chill the receiver bottle. Fill. Chill again. Fill again and weigh. Do not overfill based on weight.

As the donor gets low you will get less of a fill because you are not pumping the liquid, so freezing is more important.

To bug fix no flow. Chase the gas. With it right way up, quickly vent the donor. Add the adapter. Repeat. Now do the same on the receiver. Any blockage has to become apparent.

Use gloves and ear defenders.

 

[LeeH]

I have the first one you posted a pic of and it works well. Issues I’ve had in early days are;

1. Bottle not in the freezer
2. No dip tube in the doner so had to invert it. Valve end down
3. Pin on the adapter killing the bottles as it adjusted too far down.

I have read that some bottles are anti fill. You can buy ones that are not from the CO2 superstore site.

 

[Nick Brown]

I am freezing and inverting... have watched the videos.

You say the "Pin in the adapter" - my adapters don't have a pin for the sodastream end.

Venting the receiver once chilled will draw air in - hopefully it's already got a slight vacuum because of shrinkage of the air in there. I always fully vent before freezing.

I tried 'venting' the donor both upright and inverted - both make a loud hiss but no difference for which way up. I tried venting the donor with the (rpv) adapter attached and get an equally loud blast.

The bottle isn't anti-fill as I have a put on a refillable valve. (also get same result with the sodastream valve)

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Your first SS bottle has the wide pin on. These are susceptible to being locked when you turn donor gas on. Needs to be turned on very slowly. With donor inverted.
Your first picture of adapter is similar to mine

But mine has nylon washer for the connection end to the main cylinder ( as a regulator does) and rubber washer at end to attach to the soda stream.

The thumb screw has Oring on it as well.

The thumb screw I think is meant to be screwed in at the beginning attach adapter to main cylinder with or without PTFE tape.
Screw on soda stream with or without PTFE, invert main cylinder and with the thumb screw screwed in slowly turn the cylinder on.
Soda stream will fill.
Wear PPE, freezing before you start will increase your fill but not necessary but an easy extra step.
My adapter came with spare nylon and rubber washers and orings.

 

[LeeH]

Right, my first adapter had a pin that you screwed down. It started to leak so it went in the bin. See below.

CO2 Refill Adapter with Hose,CO2 Cylinder Fill Adapter with Hose for Sodastream Filling Hose Length 24in,36in(36 inches) https://amzn.eu/d/2LluDlo

Now I have a simple brass one. Didn’t even look if it had a pin, it just works

VIFERR Soda Adapter - Soda Bottle Adapter CO2 Cylinder Brass Connector Kitchen Tools https://amzn.eu/d/he2OEwV

Happy to test one of your bottles but it’s more cost to you.

 

[MashBag]

Now I have a simple brass one. Didn’t even look if it had a pin, it just works

VIFERR Soda Adapter - Soda Bottle Adapter CO2 Cylinder Brass Connector Kitchen Tools https://amzn.eu/d/he2OEwV

What is the knob for?

 

[peebee]

Now I have a simple brass one. Didn’t even look if it had a pin, it just works

VIFERR Soda Adapter - Soda Bottle Adapter CO2 Cylinder Brass Connector Kitchen Tools https://amzn.eu/d/he2OEwV

Just the job! They didn't have nice straight-forward ones like that when I was getting one. Instead, mine's "two-piece" 'cos all the attached junk means there isn't a clear line to poke an Allen key (... later!), it's got a stupid little pressure gauge which tells you (the "gas" is liquid remember) it has some gas available, and, it's run out (great ooo look, it's running out of gas ... scratch that, it just has run out of gas!), and an on-off valve (like the cylinder hasn't got one? ). Mine has also got that thumbscrew (which @MashBag want's to know is for) to release residual pressure in the tool before detaching it from the cylinders (can also be used to purge air out of the tool or the target cylinder, but it isn't essential).

There's actually a better device on that page (exactly the same adapter, just a different reseller):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Solomi-CO2-Refill-Adapter-Connection/dp/B07VJFMV2Y
It's cheaper ... no it isn't, fippin' heck they've just bumped the price up, it was £19.99 a minute ago ... grr . It has more spares, an Allen key to adjust the "pin" (@LeeH has used a bad turn of language which might give the impression it ain't got a pin - I'm good at spotting that in other peoples' writing ... shame I can't spot it in my writing). Those pins are a pain, not tight enough and it won't open the cylinder, too tight and it forces the cylinder shut again. Too tight plus a bit and you might damage the cylinder or pin.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

The adapter doesn't need a pin to depress soda stream cylinder top button. The gas pressure does that when you turn on main cylinder, provided that it has enough pressure.
The rebound locking of soda stream pin occurs when gas forms early in the filling due to CO2 liquid evaporation in the warmer environment it's passing through and entering ( the adapter and bottle).

 

[RoomWithABrew]

The pin is needed on the adapter to allow a normal regulator to be attached to soda stream.
Otherwise you'd get no reading when you used it because the soda stream valve would never open.

 

[peebee]

The adapter doesn't need a pin to depress soda stream cylinder top button. The gas pressure does that when you turn on main cylinder, provided that it has enough pressure. ...

Yeap, it does that ... up until the pressure is the same in both cylinders, whereupon the Sodastream cylinder's valve, which isn't being held open by a pin (it's not there!) is free to close ... and it'll be held closed by the weight of liquid gas trying to get through the valve (whether that "weight" is directly due to gravity or indirectly due to syphon).

Humm ... when you start thinking about you begin to wonder how anything flows, especially when using syphon (dip) tubes? It is a closed system. Just using gravity, I could imagine (uncomfortably imagine that is) gaseous CO2 flowing back to the donor, while the donor allowed liquid CO2 to flow (by gravity) into the receiving cylinder. All that counterflow in the same tube? ... Err, okay, someone else figure it, me 'ead hurts now.