Two things that bug me.......

[kev]

Now I know I'm new round here so I should probably just sit quietly at the back.....but there's 2 things that bug me about home brewers. I thought that I'd vent some steam and who knows......someone might agree.

Just to be clear, this isn't aimed at anyone, it's just an observation.

1. Penny pinching

I absolutely cannot stand people going on about how cheap their beer is. I never ever think about the cost of my beer. If cost was a primary factor I would go to Aldi and buy whatever's the cheapest. For me, home brewing is about producing the best beer possible from the freshest ingredients possible. When my mates come round and taste my beer, the look on their faces is my "payment". I seriously do not give a damn whether your brew cost 40p a pint or £2 a pint. Does it taste and look good? That's what matters. People in the jail make hooch for free..... but would you drink it? Cost is not definition of success in homebrew. The end.

2. Trying to replicate mass-produced garbage

How many times have you heard people saying "it's my first brew this weekend - I'm going for a Fosters clone". WTF is that about? If I want Foster's, I'd go to ASDA and buy a billion cans of it for £10 or whatever. To me it's like getting into kit car making and trying to make a Ford Escort or getting into authentic Italian cooking and trying to replicate Ragu. Now I know everyone has different tastes in beer and not everyone likes stouts, porters, etc but trying to replicate a mass-produced brand that has taken literally hundreds of years to develop and is made by doctors in massive factories with a bucket and some bleach for your first brew is madness.

Rant over.

K

 

[Cussword]

I try to live & let live :thumb:

 

[Good Ed]

Rant +1 :thumb:

 

[Archtronics]

Surly most people start with something they know because it is comfortable and they know what it tastes like? Before moving onto producing something different. It would seem a little silly to me to try make a stout if A: you didn't like them?
B: you haven't the faintest clue what its supposed to taste like?

The vast majority don't actually enjoy beer for its taste and only drank it due to peer pressure and simply it is the done "thing", obviously for the intoxicating effects. So big brand marketing, flashy beer fonts etc influence there choice of beverage. Then for the vast majority (like my farther :? ) Fosters is considered a good drink and anything else is not really given a look in.

Also if they end up coming here then surly they are starting to explore all the different styles of beer.

Mark

 

[Eric_S]

I agree on the point about money - I don't do it to save money - it's more about being in control of what I eat or drink and I try to apply it whenever I can. Most of my homemade stuff can be bought more cheaply that what myself and my missus produces it as (garden vegetables and fruit included) but nothing beats the satisfaction of a) having made it yourself and b) being in complete control of what goes it.

As far as making things that tastes like commercial products - it's a hard one. Noting that for me (as an example) I can only base my tastes on what I have eaten from commercial producers, and therefore I only know what I like so far based on that. For instance, no other ketchup other than Heinz tastes like ketchup to me - so if I wanted to make Ketchup that's what flavour I would be aiming for.

So, to pick on a previous post I had made, I love the taste of Stella, Peroni etc. It would then seem reasonable to try to make something along those lines rather than venturing too far into the unknown (and this is not a cost factor but more the time and effort expended).

 

[kev]

So, to pick on a previous post I had made, I love the taste of Stella, Peroni etc. It would then seem reasonable to try to make something along those lines rather than venturing too far into the unknown (and this is not a cost factor but more the time and effort expended).

That's totally fair do's mate. The post wasn't aimed at anyone so (just in case you were) please don't take it that way.

The point I was making about cloning commercial products was that I brew beer I like. If it's too dark/light then I rectify it and will get something I like that's available nowhere else. However, on the flip-side, I understand people wanting to replicate something they know as that way they can judge how good they are. The point that bugs me is that people pick brands that are made in chemical factories not breweries and on scales not imaginable by the normal person.

K

 

[abeyptfc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g

i dont think AG brewers are trying to brew the cheapest beer they can, they are just stating how much less it costs them to produce a better pint than you would get down the pub. cheap kits are a decent way for people to get started but i dont think many kit brewers expect to brew a better pint than the commercial breweries.

I think brewers starting out in AG try to replicate something just so they can get a feel for using the equipment and to see if they can replicate a brew they know the taste of I suppose. If they start brewing a recipe from someone else they dont really know how it is supposed to turn out or taste, i dunno, just my take on it.

 

[klaus]

I don't do it for saving money though it's always satisfying to sip a brew which cost you less than a pound for a pint or a bottle. Even more satisfying is when friends and family who don't think you can create anything drinkable without a factory, suddenly sing their praises on tasting your creations... Certainly cloning is the last thing I am interested in.
One factor for a big influx into home brewing and wine making is the current recession, which in itself is a good thing. What get's me often though is that people clearly don't research (read!) books/FAQs/etc. It gets a bit tedious to repeat certain things - and I am by no means an expert, but I have found that sticking with some semblance of organisation and proess most brews come out ok, many better than ok, in my experience.

 

[Aleman]

I got into brewing for the price. :shock: In my case it was an 8 pint trial tin of John Bull Bitter that I tripled the sugar in and fermented in the airing cupboard . . . . It was strong and got you ****** fast (and throwing up even faster :sick: ) which was the prevalent attitude toward home brewing coming out of the 70's . . . and in my defence I was 17 and didn't know any better.

Apart from that one nasty experience I have brewed all grain ever since, and it has never been about the cost for me (The thousands I have spent on breweries over the last 31 years it couldn't be ), and I fully believe that with fresh kits and 'craft' brewing techniques it is possible to produce damn good beer with them, it's just not for me.

As for cloning commercial ****, no I don't understand it either, but if someone wants the challenge of brewing a fosters/carlsberg/budweiser I'll gladly point them in the right direction. I have nothing but admiration for the brewers at Anheuser Busch, they truly are the finest brewers on the planet. It takes a great amount of skill to produce a beer that has that little taste . . . and for brewers one downside to turning pro is that you cannot brew the beers you like, you have to brew what sells. It must be truly demoralising to produce the same commercial **** day in day out, knowing that you can do better.

 

[graysalchemy]

I don't brew to make the cheapest pint possible I brew to make a decent pint at a reasonable cost, but if you take into account what we spend building our brewery and the failures on the way then we are not brewing for 20p a pint.

With regard to clones, I have brewed Fullers ESB, but the recipe has now evolved somewhat and it is my house beer. The reason I used a clone to begin with was it gave a starting point for me to experiment and practice knowing I should end up with something half decent that I liked. However if I had started with a J@hn S*iths clone then I could understand your point.

 

[screamlead]

I started down the all grain route not for cost but because non of it can be got here, except of course the commercial cr@p imported and vastly overpriced.
Effes is the national drink here and its made with rice too - not a lot of expats get on with it.
So i decided to go all grain and to experiment as to what i could make - all from scratch as i have to malt the barley too. Only down side is i have to get mates and family to bring out anything i dont trust in the post and of course my hops and yeast.
I may be able to at some point source hops here but that would mean car hire and a 12 hour drive to find the region they grow in - or as i plan to - buy some decent rhizomes next spring and have those brought out so i can grow my own too.
I;m no expert by no means but i have made what i consider 2 decent brews so far going by what friends have said about them.
I always drank lager TBH but through no choice as served with the forces in Germany for 17 years so not many bitters to drink there at schutzenfests with barrels of pils chucked at you all weekend long.
But so far its going ok and i'm enjoying the challenge of not only brewing beers and wines in a different country but experiementing too, and also building all the brewing gear from all sorts sourced locally as well. So its not about costs but about the finished product being miles better than any local stuff. :party:

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

I have nothing but admiration for the brewers at Anheuser Busch, they truly are the finest brewers on the planet. It takes a great amount of skill to produce a beer that has that little taste . . . .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

As for cloning commercial ****, no I don't understand it either.

I perhaps should also point out that I did spend 3 years trying to clone Pilsner Urquell . . . but that was the beer before communism fell and SABMillers took the brewery over.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

I got into brewing for cost too :shock:

When I started brewing all I really wanted to be able to do was supply my beer consumption habit with decent beer for less cost.

The first beer I ever tried to brew was an Extract version of Brewers Gold, it was drinkable but thats about it, I spent quite a while trying to reproduce commercial beers so I could learn how to brew and have some form of Benchmark as to whether I got close to getting it right or not. Admittedly I never tried to brew Fosters.

I did however once try to brew a Grolsch Clone, SWMBO loves Grolsch, it's her favourite beer for a sunny day in the garden. It turned out nothing like Grolsch, actually in a side by side comparison most people can't distinguish it from Thornbridge Italia, so I'm quite pleased about that. SWMBO likes it and thinks it is better than Grolsch.

If my Homebrew was costing me £2.00 a pint I probably wouldn't bother, I'd likely buy quality beer from quality breweries, however it's not costing anything like that so I'll carry on brewing, and experimenting for now.

I still buy commercial beer as well as I enjoy tasting different beer, and it can give me something to aim for. If I could reproduce Kernel Breweries Export India Porter I'd be very happy indeed.

 

[shearclass]

I start doing home brew because ti was cheap and my dad had soem basic gear. I was instantly hooked and haev spent much more money on more equipment, but if ti was costing me too much i would stop, because quite simply i wouldn't be able to afford it.

I only brew from kits as I don't have time space or money to get the extra bits needed for full mash, though it's something i'd like to try at some poitn in my life, and I've recently started making wine.

As for reproducign existing beer, I have (as much as is possible with a premium IPA kit and various extra hops) tried to approximate the flavour of Punk IPA. Yes i could buy it and it would be nicer than what i can achevie with a kit, btu ti would eb much more expensive.

In summary, I assume I am one of these people who bug you.

I make no apology for this, there are much more important things in life to worry about other than the reason and cause of enjoyment that a totally unrelated individual gets from homrbrewing.

 

[shearclass]

If my Homebrew was costing me £2.00 a pint I probably wouldn't bother, I'd likely buy quality beer from quality breweries, however it's not costing anything like that so I'll carry on brewing, and experimenting for now.

I still buy commercial beer as well as I enjoy tasting different beer, and it can give me something to aim for.

Agreed.

 

[critch]

. . and for brewers one downside to turning pro is that you cannot brew the beers you like, you have to brew what sells. It must be truly demoralising to produce the same commercial **** day in day out, knowing that you can do better.

dont 100% agree with that, i certainly dont like every beer i brew, but the majority of them im very happy with :party:

 

[guyb]

I got back into home brewing as I was sick of shelling out for average beer and wine at inflated prices - I was pretty certain that I could produce beer that was at least as average as the beer I was buying, for less than the price I was paying.

So far I've managed to produce beer that on average is far superior to that which I've bought, save for the odd few nice pints such as Cherrypicker and Thirsty Moon etc.

As for wine, I just use the Beaverdale Pinot Grigio kit, and for the money I save making it over buying the equivalent bottle for the wife in the shop actually goes to paying for my own beer. So much so, that I am perpetually making it for the wife and mother-in-law. I had to buy four 30 bottle kits the other day to satisfy demand!

I think as a few have said and I would agree, my early forays into HB in my earlier years (early 20's) were simply to get hammered for a price. Now it is much more about creating a quality product for a social drink.

I only tend to buy beers to see what they taste like (and then much like with food go away and see how I could adapt it to my taste or make it better), I happen to like the taste of Green King IPA - but I wouldn't try to copy it (you can buy it for £3.50 for 4 cans at ASDA - but I would go for Wez's Thirst Gold as it uses First Gold Hops in it, as does Greene King IPA, and I would tinker about to see what the end result is like).

Much like I like Murphy's and Guinness, but wouldn't try to copy, but I would have a go at Aleman's Effin Stout :

 

[guyb]

Now I know I'm new round here so I should probably just sit quietly at the back.....but there's 2 things that bug me about home brewers. I thought that I'd vent some steam and who knows......someone might agree.

2. Trying to replicate mass-produced garbage

How many times have you heard people saying "it's my first brew this weekend - I'm going for a Fosters clone". WTF is that about? If I want Foster's, I'd go to ASDA and buy a billion cans of it for £10 or whatever. To me it's like getting into kit car making and trying to make a Ford Escort or getting into authentic Italian cooking and trying to replicate Ragu. Now I know everyone has different tastes in beer and not everyone likes stouts, porters, etc but trying to replicate a mass-produced brand that has taken literally hundreds of years to develop and is made by doctors in massive factories with a bucket and some bleach for your first brew is madness.

Rant over.

K

I think it's an interesting point you make here, but when most people think back, one of the reasons people get into HB'ing is they see how cheaply they could make an equivalent'ish drink themselves - the Cooper's range is a case in point, such as the Cerveza, European lager, Canadian Blonde - many of these kits are labelled to look like their commercial equivalent's (Cooper's specifically).

just my opinion of course.

But the ranting aside, I think it is an interesting couple of points that you make indeed :thumb:

On your first point about price, invariably I would expect that most people don't factor in the price of the equipment in that price, as my latest AG is probably about £5 a pint (if you count everything in) shhhsh don't tell her indoors!. :whistle:

 

[dennisking]

I started brew simply because I wanted to drink real ale at home, the fact its cheaper is a big bonus. I've brewed many of the recipes in both the David Line and Graham Wheeler clone books. Some have come out close to the real thing some not as close. We all know unless you are using the same yeast its never going to be exactly the same but what I am looking for is to brew beers along the same lines as some of the commercial ones. But my best ones tend to be ones I've put together myself but those books have helped me get where I am.