Article in Times
- Thread starter Horners
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Here's the letter referred to in the article. The article definitely goes further in its criticism. Perhaps the journalist contacted the correspondent.
In case the attachment is unreadable. Here's a link to the image:
https://ibb.co/7WGXxBv
In case the attachment is unreadable. Here's a link to the image:
https://ibb.co/7WGXxBv
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Looks like a glass of lager shandy she's holding 
Drunkula
Landlord.
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Maybe they think Top Deck is a craft beer because it comes in a little can and has a retro, minimalist design.Looks like a glass of lager shandy she's holding
An Ankoù
Landlord.
I've been a member of CAMRA for as long as I can remember, but let my membership lapse when it became glaringly obvious that they'd sold out to Wetherspoons. How can they bewail the loss of pubs month after month when they actively promote a beer discounting chain?
aamcle
Landlord.
It's not a matter of selling out .it's what they're for.
Real Ale does not necessarily imply good Ale a fixation on a method of serving is not what's needed NOW. We need a campaign for GOOD Ale !!
Aamcle
Real Ale does not necessarily imply good Ale a fixation on a method of serving is not what's needed NOW. We need a campaign for GOOD Ale !!
Aamcle
An Ankoù
Landlord.
And a lot of that is the fault of CAMRA. Donkies' years ago, when real ale was just getting on its feet, CAMRA refused to accept that beer served from a cask with a cask breather was real ale. A cask breather provides a blanket of carbon dioxide at normal pressure over the beer. Hence beer started to turn before the cask could be finished if it was a slow seller. Hence real ale had a mixed reception.
What do you mean it's what they're for? For selling out? or what they stand for?
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I can't read the article. Please tell me is isn't the usual illogical 'they should allow craft keg' nonsense?
This is all you get for free -
It might seem like small beer to some, but to the warring factions of the Campaign for Real Ale the battle for the organisation’s future is anything but.
In one corner of the pub are the long-serving members, often caricatured as a hardcore of bearded men in T-shirts who would be an asset to any tug-of-war team. In the other are the hipster reformers, younger, perhaps cooler and more likely to be female.
The disagreement between them has gone public after a group of seven reformers warned that Camra, as it is abbreviated, was “riddled with accusations of sexism and cronyism” and without change risked becoming a “pensioners’ drinking club”. In a letter published in this month’s What’s Brewing, the organisation’s newsletter, the members, all…
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It might seem like small beer to some, but to the warring factions of the Campaign for Real Ale the battle for the organisation’s future is anything but.
In one corner of the pub are the long-serving members, often caricatured as a hardcore of bearded men in T-shirts who would be an asset to any tug-of-war team. In the other are the hipster reformers, younger, perhaps cooler and more likely to be female.
The disagreement between them has gone public after a group of seven reformers warned that Camra, as it is abbreviated, was “riddled with accusations of sexism and cronyism” and without change risked becoming a “pensioners’ drinking club”. In a letter published in this month’s What’s Brewing, the organisation’s newsletter, the members, all…
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The thorny subject of Cask Breathers was hotly debated yet again at last year’s AGM, and it was grudgingly agreed that Camra should adopt a ‘neutral’ position on their use, which is at least an improvement on a hostile one.
As I had been using a cask breather and a ¼ pint a pull handpump to dispense my beers from PBs for some years before Camra became aware of them, I was appalled when they shot themselves in the foot by condemning their use in GBG listed pubs, on the erroneous basis that they made beer ‘fizzy’, and to quote from one year’s GBG “ prevented beer from maturing and conditioning properly” ! !
Could I just correct a couple of comments often said about cask breathers, they can’t be adjusted in any way, and a cask of beer connected to one will usually be at slightly less than atmospheric pressure, never slightly over it.
As I had been using a cask breather and a ¼ pint a pull handpump to dispense my beers from PBs for some years before Camra became aware of them, I was appalled when they shot themselves in the foot by condemning their use in GBG listed pubs, on the erroneous basis that they made beer ‘fizzy’, and to quote from one year’s GBG “ prevented beer from maturing and conditioning properly” ! !
Could I just correct a couple of comments often said about cask breathers, they can’t be adjusted in any way, and a cask of beer connected to one will usually be at slightly less than atmospheric pressure, never slightly over it.
Hoppyland
Senior Member
OK
So, if I bottle my beer, prime it so it is "bottle conditioned", then clearly it qualifies as "Real Ale"
But, if I put the same beer into a "Corny Keg", carbonate it with a CO2 cylinder, why does it somehow become "Unreal Ale"????
Jeez, it is the same beer - but with one important difference. From the keg, I can easily control the amount of carbonation - adjusting it as I work through the keg & make it pretty much like a pint pulled through a beer engine if I wish. With the bottle, I'm totally stuck with the initial carbonation level that I chose.
I know where my preference lies, and it is not with unthinking dogma.
So, if I bottle my beer, prime it so it is "bottle conditioned", then clearly it qualifies as "Real Ale"
But, if I put the same beer into a "Corny Keg", carbonate it with a CO2 cylinder, why does it somehow become "Unreal Ale"????
Jeez, it is the same beer - but with one important difference. From the keg, I can easily control the amount of carbonation - adjusting it as I work through the keg & make it pretty much like a pint pulled through a beer engine if I wish. With the bottle, I'm totally stuck with the initial carbonation level that I chose.
I know where my preference lies, and it is not with unthinking dogma.
Exactly why I’m letting my Camra membership lapse this year, after 22 years’ membership.
I seriously don't understand people's disappointment with CAMRA. It's a campaign group for preserving and promoting cask and bottle conditioned ale. End of. It exists because big beer was happy to see this traditional British method of producing a pint disappear in favour of more convenient (to them) pasteurised keg. Having rescued it, its purpose is to promote it.
People complaining that they won't promote craft keg, or whatever, are missing the point. It's like complaining the Champagne society, should it exist, doesn't promote Bordeaux. Your keg craft may well be a fantastic beer, but it isn't the campaign for good beer, but for real ale - cask.
The sad thing is that had crafties started their own organisation for promoting their beers , there could have been lots for the two organisations to cooperate on. But it seems to me that such is some of the vitreous that has been aimed at CAMRA by seemingly sulking crafties that this opportunity has passed. I may be wrong.
People complaining that they won't promote craft keg, or whatever, are missing the point. It's like complaining the Champagne society, should it exist, doesn't promote Bordeaux. Your keg craft may well be a fantastic beer, but it isn't the campaign for good beer, but for real ale - cask.
The sad thing is that had crafties started their own organisation for promoting their beers , there could have been lots for the two organisations to cooperate on. But it seems to me that such is some of the vitreous that has been aimed at CAMRA by seemingly sulking crafties that this opportunity has passed. I may be wrong.
No, it isn't.
It's a designated consumer rights group (recognised under law) with a far wider remit than the name suggests. They've campaigned about saving pubs (some of which don't serve real ale), beer duty (applies to all breweries), full measures (applies to all pints), real cider, etc etc.
The website lists their 4 key campaigns - only 1 relates specifically to real ale (and even that includes cider and perry).
What concerns me is that, having established themselves as self-appointed arbiters of 'good beer' they have abused that position by, in effect, declaring other dispensing methods as an inferior product. We beer aficionados may be aware what "real ale" actually means and be able to reach an informed decision as to how much salt to take CAMRAs pronouncements with (are there any cask Goses?!) but to the man on the Clapham Omnibus, the beer experts have said keg is inferior. I think that's wrong. CAMRA either need to wear the mantle of beer promoters fairly, or be more open to the public that they are, in effect, a special interest group, NOT a general beer consumer champion as they claim to be, and have successfully applied to be treated as under law.
They've become compeletely muddled as to who they are serving, what for, and why.
I suspect a large number of the 188k + members joined for the same reason I did - they championed what was (then) generally a better product than the awful keg beers at the time. But the world has moved on and CAMRA has not. Whilst I respect their devotion to cask, it is not an issue I care passionately enough about.
There is now decent beer available in most pubs, and not all of it is 'real ale'. There is also still some pretty awful beer on sale, and quite a lot of it is 'real ale'. You can't equate 'real ale' with 'better beer', as CAMRA seem determined to insinuate.
* Boring anecdote alert *
My moment of realisation happened at a CAMRA beer festival, when I happened across a table, manned by two people, ignored by every passer-by but myself. They were the "Brewed in Wood" society, committed to the idea that beer brewed in wood was superior to all others. They were completely ignored by the thousands of punters walking by, happily supping their "real ale", mostly brewed in stainless steel.
It occurred to me that in 30 years' time, that could be CAMRA - relegated to being a single-issue side-show as a slightly-bemused world passes by.
Edits: typos
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An Ankoù
Landlord.
Spot on, Llamaman, and their affiliation with Wetherspoons and Tim Martin's ghastly propaganda campaign- at the expense of real pubs- is another reason to move on from CAMRA.
Oh come on! CAMRA have always been 100% clear as to what type of beer they campaign to save / champion, and to suggest otherwise is pretty disingenuous.
If they don't include your favourite tie of beer in that clearly defined definition, why not gather a like minded group of individuals and start your own organisation? Why insist that the cricket club plays baseball?
I just don't see why people get so vexed about this.
P.s. The campaign for beer in the wood haven't been all about wooden casks since the 1960's!
If they don't include your favourite tie of beer in that clearly defined definition, why not gather a like minded group of individuals and start your own organisation? Why insist that the cricket club plays baseball?
I just don't see why people get so vexed about this.
P.s. The campaign for beer in the wood haven't been all about wooden casks since the 1960's!
Is that comment aimed at me?Oh come on! CAMRA have always been 100% clear as to what type of beer they campaign to save / champion, and to suggest otherwise is pretty disingenuous.
If they don't include your favourite tie of beer in that clearly defined definition, why not gather a like minded group of individuals and start your own organisation? Why insist that the cricket club plays baseball?
I just don't see why people get so vexed about this.
P.s. The campaign for beer in the wood haven't been all about wooden casks since the 1960's!
If so, you either didn’t read my comment well enough or are deliberately misrepresenting it. I suggest you read it again.
Umm, Wetherspoons. Tricky one that. They seem to offer a fair choice of beers at a reasonable price in the ones I've been in, although some of their beers on offer may be a bit iffy to the cognoscenti. The food's not too bad and is very much 'you gets what you pay for'. And their pubs are OK, some better than others. So what's the problem with them? In smaller towns there's only usually one close to the town centre so those pubs in the immediate vicinity will feel the pinch, but that's competition, however those pubs in the outskirts of town are unlikely to be affected. As for country pubs it's food that attracts punters nowadays not an array of handpumps. So I don't really get the animosity against them, and as always with these things, if people don't like them drink elsewhere where the beer may be similar if not the same but twice as expensive.
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An Ankoù
Landlord.
Fair point. I've had some good sessions and some decent beer in some and when they first started out, their bogs were amazing. Possibly the existence of a Wetherspoons in town has meant that other pubs have had to look to their competitiveness or they may have had to shut up shop, I don't know. But now that Tim Martin has moved on from business to open political campaigning, I worry about the 50p-off-a pint vouchers that he continues to give to CAMRA members. In continuing to accept these vouchers, CAMRA members are encouraged to drink in Wetherspoons, to be fed Martin's political propaganda which is to hand in all his pubs and, quite frankly, while I can put up with the beard and sandals image of CAMRA, I do not want to be associated in any way with Tony Martin's politics - you knock around with, drink with and eat with like thinkers after all. He should stick to what he knows and does well and CAMRA are completely sold out to increasing membership at the expense of political neutrality. I really regret the twenty or so new members I introduced to this hypocritical organisation. Are you answered?
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