Bohemian Pilsner

[MacKiwi]

I'm a big fan of these beers, and I've been studying Aleman's epic pilsner thread...

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10773

However, I don't have the ability to do a decoction mash, and if I need to do a step mash, I think all I could do would be to add more hot water (and hence thin the mash). How can I brew Aleman's recipe with a single infusion mash?

I've made a start by ordering the following from Mr Maltmiller. He was out of floor-malted pilsner malt, so I bought the regular pilsner malt

5kg Weyermann® Bohemian Pilsner Malt (http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=109))
200g Saaz hops (http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=12)
1 vial WLP800 pilsner yeast (http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=153)

Since I'm not doing a decoction mash, should I also get some melanoidin malt and add a bit to the infusion mash?

Do I need to step up the WLP800 to get a bigger starter?

Is it worth bothering with the 3 hour simmer, or is a standard 90min boil fine?

Any other hints/tips/suggestions?

I'm really looking forward to brewing this - seems a bit more exotic than the ales I've been brewing to date :)

 

[RobWalker]

you can't - bohemian floor malted pilsner malt actually requires it. and anything less isn't that recipe. :p

3 hour simmers are to drive off as many bad flavours as possible with as little boil off as possible, i think...

 

[MacKiwi]

Ok, so I won't be making an authentic Czech pilsner. But given that I couldn't get floor-malted grain, and can't decoction mash, I guess that was never going to be on the cards.

So given what I have to work with, how do I get as close as possible to the real thing? For example, in the absence of a stepped mash, but temperature would you use for the single infusion mash?

 

[Aleman]

I'm a big fan of these beers, and I've been studying Aleman's epic pilsner thread...

However, I don't have the ability to do a decoction mash, and if I need to do a step mash, I think all I could do would be to add more hot water (and hence thin the mash). How can I brew Aleman's recipe with a single infusion mash?

Well there is nothing stopping you doing a multistep mash with infusions, Czech mashes do end up at around 6L per Kilo . . won't be quite the same as decoction, but at least you can do the steps. . . . Alternatively go for a single infusion mash at 66C.

I've made a start by ordering the following from Mr Maltmiller. He was out of floor-malted pilsner malt, so I bought the regular pilsner malt

Wise choice, you can get away with a single infusion mash with the malt you have, the floor malted must at least have the Hochkurz mash schedule

Since I'm not doing a decoction mash, should I also get some melanoidin malt and add a bit to the infusion mash?

Would not be a bad idea ~4-5% would be the maximum I would use. Alternatively 10-15% Light Munich malt is a good choice. Another way of getting the melanoidins would be to take 2-5L of liquid from the end of the mash, and boil the **** out of it for 15 minutes (or pressure cook it)

Do I need to step up the WLP800 to get a bigger starter?

I try and aim for a 5L starter for 25L batches only pitching the slurry, but that is pitching and fermenting at 10C. In your case I would go with a 1L starter, pitch at 18C and once fermentation has started cool down to12C . . .you will need to do a diacetyl rest at the end of fermentation, but that will help get to a nice dry final gravity anyway.

Is it worth bothering with the 3 hour simmer, or is a standard 90min boil fine?

It's your choice really I'd go with a 90 minute boil, but not a really hard boil, a gentle rolling boil would be fine.

 

[Good Ed]

I did this a couple of years ago with Aleman's advice :thumb: , I had already bought the floor malted Pilsner so did a 2 stage mash. Turned out very nice, it's about time I did another

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13156

 

[MacKiwi]

Great feedback, thanks guys.

A question for Good Ed - your recipe uses a lot more Saaz than Aleman's original recipe. Did it turn out too hoppy, or about right? I'm aiming more for Budvar, which is less hoppy than Pilsner Urquell in my opinion.

So then, I think the recipe is as follows...

Bohemian Pilsener

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.600
Total Hops (g): 114.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.91 %
Colour (SRM): 3.7 (EBC): 7.3
Bitterness (IBU): 38.6 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
4.100 kg Pilsner (89.13%)
0.500 kg Munich I (10.87%)

Hop Bill
----------------
50.0 g Saaz Leaf (3.6% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil) (2.2 g/L)
38.0 g Saaz Leaf (3.6% Alpha) @ 75 Minutes (Boil) (1.7 g/L)
13.0 g Saaz Leaf (3.6% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
13.0 g Saaz Leaf (3.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 12°C with WLP800 - Pilsner Lager

Only problem is I have to wait another week before brewing this

 

[Good Ed]

your hop schedule looks good, I've just looked up my notes and I had 41 IBU's, my Saaz were a bit lower at 3.1% AA and I used more in late additions, so you'll be good :thumb:

 

[MacKiwi]

You've raised a really good point there GoodEd, I've checked the AA level of the Saaz I've just received, and it's 2.9%! So I need to adjust the schedule a bit to get 40 IBUs. Lesson learnt - don't trust the default AA settings in the brewing software...

 

[Aleman]

If you are going for a Budweiser then you need to drop the gravity back to 10 Plato (~1.040) and lower the IBU to around 30-32 . . . The recipe you have there is for the stronger 12 Plato beers like Pilsner Urquell

Otherwise everything look s good.

 

[MacKiwi]

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I've got all the grains and hops for the 12 plato version, so I think I'll stick to that plan. I'll do my 'budvar' when I have some floor malted grain and the ability to step mash...

 

[zgoda]

If you are going for a Budweiser then you need to drop the gravity back to 10 Plato (~1.040) and lower the IBU to around 30-32 . . . The recipe you have there is for the stronger 12 Plato beers like Pilsner Urquell

Otherwise everything look s good.

Budvar (standard export version) is 12 Plato, pilsner urquell is 11.5. Budvar head brewer says they both have IBU level of ~30.

 

[MacKiwi]

Ok - the brew-day for this went ok, and I made up a nice big starter of WLP800 to pitch in.

I started it at 18 degrees, and had visible signs of fermentation in around 12 hours. Then, due to some finger trouble, I messed up reconfiguring the thermostat and left it at 18 degrees for another day, before I realised my mistake and dropped it to 12. Hopefully no harm done...

It has now been in the FV for 11 days, and has reached 1014. It appears to be dropping very, very slowly (say, 1/3rd of a point per day), but I need the fermentation chamber back for Thursday. Shall I bump the temperature back up for 2 days for the diaceytel rest, and hope that drys it out as well? Or does it need longer at 12 degrees?

Oh, and it tastes fantastic! First time I've used Saaz, and I love it - I'm sooo over Cascade already...