Is holding a steady temp that important

[Cqr]

As the title asks, is it a big deal if my temp drops by 4 degrees
When mashing, full volume biab
One more noob question I'am thinking of going the no chill route
What impact if any would this have on hop aroma etc

 

[Hoppyland]

Well, I wouldn't be happy with a 4C drop over your mash period.
I also think it's an easy thing to avoid.
BUT....
Let's say you started out every mash at 68C, and it ended at 64C.
Your beer would be, repeatedly, fine. Just not the orthodox way of getting there.

No chill - well I don't chill. No personal experience of how it affects aroma & flavour - never done a back-to-back test. My suspicion is that it enhances flavour, but dry-hop if you want aroma.
What I know can change is bitterness. More bitterness will be definitely be extracted from the hops by no-chill. For British style beers, this is no problem for me. Put in a high-alpha hop at the start of the boil (Warrior is my go-to), then add some low-alpha flavour hops after the end of the boil. You will get more bitterness, but with Goldings, Fuggles etc it won't be a lot. The dry hops will obviously make no difference to bitterness.
Not quite so easy with American style IPAs. A lot of the top-drawer flavour/aroma hops are also quite (occasionally very!) high-alpha. So, even if you pop these in at flameout, then if you leave them (and I would!) overnight, there is going to be a significant increase in bitterness. For me, just cut down on the full-boil bittering hops - you don't really need them other than to provide bitterness. You might not need it.

 

[MyQul]

Short answer. Yes. 4C is a lot where mash temp is concerned even 1C can make a difference I've found. I noticed significant difference with a stout mashed at 66C and exactly the same recipe mashed at 67C, to the body of the wort

My personal opinion is tha no chill can have again have a significant effect on flavour/aroma. When you no chill i think much of the volitile oils that give flavour/aroma can be lost in the steam as the wort cools. This is why I do a micro boil for the late additions once the wort is cooled. Some people disagree. The best/only way to find out for yourself is to make a brew in the tradtional way but no chill it and then make another (it doesn't have to be the exact same brew) brew but add the flavour addtions as a mico boil or hop tea or as some people do, adding the flavour addtions to a no -chill cube, to compare the difference

 

[BigDave345]

Short answer. Yes. 4C is a lot where mash temp is concerned even 1C can make a difference I've found. I noticed significant difference with a stout mashed at 66C and exactly the same recipe mashed at 67C, to the body of the wort

My personal opinion is tha no chill can have again have a significant effect on flavour/aroma. When you no chill i think much of the volitile oils that give flavour/aroma can be lost in the steam as the wort cools. This is why I do a micro boil for the late additions once the wort is cooled. Some people disagree. The best/only way to find out for yourself is to make a brew in the tradtional way but no chill it and then make another (it doesn't have to be the exact same brew) brew but add the flavour addtions as a mico boil or hop tea or as some people do, adding the flavour addtions to a no -chill cube, to compare the difference

Not getting you here are you saying breweries brew wrong and you brew the right way with no chill ? can you show me evidence of what your saying

 

[Hoppyland]

My personal opinion is no chill can have a significant effect on flavour/aroma.

Yep, and one thing that I plan to do once I've finished moving house & sorting out family problems is indeed to do back-to-back tests on this.

If you don't fancy doing your own, then my advice would be to assume no-chill will affect aroma (I up the dry hopping a little, MyQul's micro -boil or hop tea method has to worth testing).

The bitterness effect is not opinion, though. Leave a high-alpha hop sitting in hot wort for hours & you will get a very bitter result :-(

 

[MyQul]

Not getting you here are you saying breweries brew wrong and you brew the right way with no chill ? can you show me evidence of what your saying

Now I'm not getting you I'm imagining most breweries chill quickly, similarly to those who use a chilling coil to 'lock in the flavour aroma'. All I'm saying is if you no chill, because your chilling over a long period of time this can have the effect of the aroma/flavour disapearing over the time it takes to chill (which breweries,or HBers of course wouldn't have this problem if they chill quickly ) so you need to take steps if you no chill

 

[MyQul]

Yep, and one thing that I plan to do once I've finished moving house & sorting out family problems is indeed to do back-to-back tests on this.

If you don't fancy doing your own, then my advice would be to assume no-chill will affect aroma (I up the dry hopping a little, MyQul's micro -boil or hop tea method has to worth testing).

The bitterness effect is not opinion, though. Leave a high-alpha hop sitting in hot wort for hours & you will get a very bitter result :-(

Sorry, I need to further explain my methods. I strain my bittering hops out using a seive before I put my wort into the cube so I wont get any extra bittering. So yes, of course I agree with you leaving you hops in hot wort for hours and you'll get extra bitternes

 

[BigDave345]

Now I'm not getting you I'm imagining most breweries chill quickly, similarly to those who use a chilling coil to 'lock in the flavour aroma'. All I'm saying is if you no chill, because your chilling over a long period of time this can have the effect of the aroma/flavour disapearing over the time it takes to chill (which breweries,or HBers of course wouldn't have this problem if they chill quickly ) so you need to take steps if you no chill

Its almost like you think no chill is the method people should use have you explained all the problems or possible problems with no chill? eg infections do i need to go on

 

[MyQul]

Its almost like you think no chill is the method people should use have you explained all the problems or possible problems with no chill? eg infections do i need to go on

My intention wasn't to imply that people should be using no-chill above using a chiller as of course they are both valid methods. The OP asked 'what was the impact of no chill on hop aroma and flavour' so I gave an explanation about my experiences of this. The OP hasn't asked about possible infections just effect on flavour/aroma so I concentrated on that. I can of course go further into detail about possible infection etc(again based on my own experiences) if necessary

 

[Hoppyland]

Sorry, I need to further explain my methods. I strain my bittering hops out using a seive before I put my wort into the cube so I wont get any extra bittering. So yes, of course I agree with you leaving you hops in hot wort for hours and you'll get extra bitternes

Yes, I obviously need to clarify as well! If only so the OP isn't totally confused :-?
My personal "no chill" method is to boil my wort (at a volume of about 22l) for some 60 mins. I have "bittering" hops, which I add at the start of the boil. I normally use the variety Warrior, irrespective of what beer I'm brewing. The reason for this is that they are very high alpha acid - so I don't need so many (v appealing to a cheapskate :lol: ) I don't expect any flavour or aroma from them to be carried over to the final beer.
(And yet... and yet.... what about first-wort hopping :-o )

For all my recent brews, I add the flavour hops when the boil has finished. I then bung on the (quite tight fitting) lid & leave it overnight. In the morning, I strain the wort removing all hops, dilute to 25l & aerate. In goes the fresh yeast cake or starter & we're off. After the initial vigorous fermentation, I "drop" the beer from under the thick yeasty head into FV2 - here the dry hopping takes place to add aroma.

So, what I think happens with my method is:
1. The bittering hops add bitterness & not much else
2. The "flameout" hops add flavour, and lots of it, because they sit for maybe 12hrs in wort that gradually cools from boiling point. Lots of time for different, complicated reactions to take place here.
3. For aroma, I don't rely on these flameout hops, although I would not discount their influence completely - but I dry-hop heavily.

Some of my thoughts might be off-target (not off-Warrior, though!) But this is a process that I think works: provided you realise that the bittering effect of the hops will be hugely increased.

 

[Hoppyland]

One more noob question I'am thinking of going the no chill route
What impact if any would this have on hop aroma etc

To go back to this - as this post seems in danger of veering off course:
1. I think no-chill has an effect on hop aroma/flavour
2. However, there are very different ways to "no-chill"
3. The different methods are likely to produce different results - but all of these are likely to be very good beers!
4. I really, really want to do lots of back-to-back comparative brews. I've loads of excuses for not doing so (Great ones at the moment! Moving house, sick aged relatives 12hrs drive away....)
5. OK my "tests" are just pie-in-the-sky. Interesting to think I might do it, though! :)

 

[dad_of_jon]

I've done no-chill & quick chill, infections i've had none with either method but I do make sure the FV is sealed supertight with starsan'd cling-film.

You are more at risk of an infection in theory with no-chill, because of the delay in pitching yeast which will you help to crowd out any other unwelcome interlopers. However if you practice good sanitizing methods it can be a great tool to split up brewing over 2 days e.g if you start brewing later in the day say 7-8pm etc.

my other half threw a curveball once and we had to go out before i'd finished so I just wrapped it up and no-chilled. - Just think of it as an extra technique. Will it work for you? - try it and see :grin:

 

[Niman]

I could not help but notice you have used WLP004 was it any good?

fwiw ive used it a few times i tend to brew 45-50 ltr batches and split in to 2 fermenters (though not always).....last batch was a brown porter..wlp04 and s04 (i think) both ok but different........personally i prefer the so4..


and that goes against the whole "liquid is better" thang.


can send u one of each if u wanna compare and make own mind up?

 

[Cqr]

Thanks for all the advice, really do appreciate it :thumb:

 

[Alside101]

If the cube is sanitised and air purged out while the wort is still hot and the cube is sealed there wouldent be much chance of infection would there? Just my presumption. I use an immersion chiller

 

[Cqr]

I was thinking of transferring wile still boiling hot to FV and fitting a air lock.
with a small amount of water in the lock
Does that sound ok

 

[Notlaw]

Is there a way of purging a no-chill vessel without needing a CO2 canister?

 

[Cwrw666]

I was thinking of transferring wile still boiling hot to FV and fitting a air lock.
with a small amount of water in the lock
Does that sound ok

I transfer from the boiler after a 20minute wait after switch-off, to allow the 0 mins hop additions time to do their stuff. The wort by then hasn't dropped more than a few degrees so as far as I'm concerned it's hot enough to totally sanitize the FV, thus negating any risk of infections. Never had one yet.
On another point I suspect that breweries chill their wort because the bigger a volume of liquid, the slower it cools naturally - cup of tea, 20 minutes. 23L homebrew, about 6 hours. 1000L vat of wort, ???? - days probably. And breweries are set up for the quickest turn around of product, because time is money, and breweries are basically there to produce money. Which is why once you start brewing AG, you'll start to find visits to pubs frequently very dissapointing...

 

[Alside101]

I saw a biab video where a woman taps it into cube then pushes it against a wall until there is no air and screws the cap on

 

[geetee]

Yep, and one thing that I plan to do once I've finished moving house & sorting out family problems is indeed to do back-to-back tests on this.

If you don't fancy doing your own, then my advice would be to assume no-chill will affect aroma (I up the dry hopping a little, MyQul's micro -boil or hop tea method has to worth testing).

The bitterness effect is not opinion, though. Leave a high-alpha hop sitting in hot wort for hours & you will get a very bitter result :-(

Although the alpha acids contribute more of the bitterness that we want the beta acids in hops although a lot more insoluble will come into play with the extended elevated temperature. The beta acids are a lot more astringent than the alpha so this may be the cause of the bitterness you refer to after leaving hot for a few hours.