Late vs 60 minute additions

[TheRedDarren]

My normal hop addition schedule is roughly 60, 10, 5 and 1. Although I do move the late additions around to see what different flavour can be coaxed from the hops.
I was watching Sam Calgione talk about his 60, 90 and 120 minute ipas on youtube last night and he claims that making a small addition every minute through the entire boil gives a much more complex flavour.
I was just wondering if anyone has tried brewing like this?
For my next brew day I might make two small batches with the only difference being the hop additions. One as normal and one every minute for 60 minutes and see what difference there is.

 

[DoctorMick]

I've done a 60 minute IPA with additions every 5 minutes from the 30 minutes mark, the results were good although it was a pain in the **** adding the hops so often so I doubt I'd consider every minute. There was considerably more hop flavour than any of the other brews I've done IIRC.

 

[Covrich]

Good thread, like most I have no scientific input but personal experience..

However I am unconvinced throwing all of your late hops at flame out / 80 is the way to go..

My hoppier more complex and more overall satisfying hoppy brews when I have made that style have benfitted from some still at 10 5 and post flame out (and mixing them rather than single hop additions at various points).. the post flame out in itself is a debatable topic. I currently steep at 80ºc for 20 or so but looking at exbeeriment they found throwing in a whirlpooling at flame out and leaving it worked just as well..

There was that thread by Tony about steeping at 66, for all the science we know/ think it appears hops are still a little mysterious to me..

Will be interested in your results.. so you are going to break down and add a hop every minute? are you going to not add a 60 minute bitter addition and just divide it all up??

 

[TheRedDarren]

Well there are two methods that I want to try, I've got 200g of citra for this exbeeriment.
First one I'll take 100g and divide it by 60 and add one every minute for the hour, a la Sam.
Second one I'm not going to use the typical 60 minute addition but maybe go for a 30, 20 and ten. Or even a 20, 10 and f/o. Or at least I'll get 99% of the ibu's from late additions a la Russian River (and Cloudwater too?)

 

[MyQul]

Great experiment Darren, but rather you than me doing an addition every minute. I like to keep my schedule pretty simple due to lazyness. I normally do 60/10/0

 

[chuffer]

moi aussi, I read that 1/2 hr additions are likely to add more bitterness than flavour and the reverse becomes true at around 15-10-5 mins left

 

[DoctorMick]

Well there are two methods that I want to try, I've got 200g of citra for this exbeeriment.
First one I'll take 100g and divide it by 60 and add one every minute for the hour, a la Sam.
Second one I'm not going to use the typical 60 minute addition but maybe go for a 30, 20 and ten. Or even a 20, 10 and f/o. Or at least I'll get 99% of the ibu's from late additions a la Russian River (and Cloudwater too?)

I'm planning on doing an brew with citra where I use 100g adding 50g or 60g at flameout, steeping for half an hour without cooling, and the rest as a dry hop, no other hop additions at all. It'll be interesting to see how that compares to the other techniques.

 

[strange-steve]

I have tried adding hops every 5 mins during the boil and the result were ok, but I didn't really notice enough of a difference to do it again. But give it a go and let us know what you think.

 

[Covrich]

I'm planning on doing an brew with citra where I use 100g adding 50g or 60g at flameout, steeping for half an hour without cooling, and the rest as a dry hop, no other hop additions at all. It'll be interesting to see how that compares to the other techniques.

So you're down the other route and exbeerimenting with no late boil additions altogether?

Are you going to dump stir ? or whirlpool it.. Since you use a GF you just dump stir leave then recirculate when cooling? I think actually that might be an advantage with something like the if it recirculates whilst cooling with steep hops..

 

[DoctorMick]

So you're down the other route and exbeerimenting with no late boil additions altogether?

Are you going to dump stir ? or whirlpool it.. Since you use a GF you just dump stir leave then recirculate when cooling? I think actually that might be an advantage with something like the if it recirculates whilst cooling with steep hops..

No boil additions at all. I'm going to dump and recirc without cooling, maybe take the lid off and stir a couple of times. So far it is just an idea, I want to run it through some software to make sure i'll get sufficient IBUs from just steeping but I reckon it'll be ok.

 

[Leon103]

I got a 60 minute IPA planned using the Greg Hughes method

 

[TheRedDarren]

Great experiment Darren, but rather you than me doing an addition every minute. I like to keep my schedule pretty simple due to lazyness. I normally do 60/10/0

Mate, I'm totally with you on that!
I'm almost hoping I can't taste any difference because if I do, I'll have to do it always!! :-D

 

[TheRedDarren]

I'm planning on doing an brew with citra where I use 100g adding 50g or 60g at flameout, steeping for half an hour without cooling, and the rest as a dry hop, no other hop additions at all. It'll be interesting to see how that compares to the other techniques.

Ooh, cool. Make this your next brew and we can compare notes. Maybe even swap.

 

[TheRedDarren]

I have tried adding hops every 5 mins during the boil and the result were ok, but I didn't really notice enough of a difference to do it again. But give it a go and let us know what you think.

What hops did you use Steve?
I'll be doing two half batches on the same day so I can then take the Pepsi challenge with them once ready.

 

[DoctorMick]

Ooh, cool. Make this your next brew and we can compare notes. Maybe even swap.

I can't unfortunately, I've just order ingredients for my next 3 brews. I've got citra leaf in the order but will need pellets for this one. Will put it 4th on my list and send a bottle over when it's done tho.

 

[strange-steve]

What hops did you use Steve?
I'll be doing two half batches on the same day so I can then take the Pepsi challenge with them once ready.

It was a couple of years ago so I'd have to check my notes but I have a feeling it was a citra smash. I remember it turned out much more bitter than I had expected which spoiled it a little. It'll be interesting to see if you notice a difference between the two batches.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Just calculated the IBU's for a 60 miunte ipa and its come out at 148! This is with 1g per minute until the last 10 minutes which will be 2g per minute.
Is this going to be too much?! Or is it just a theorectical value?

 

[MyQul]

Just calculated the IBU's for a 60 miunte ipa and its come out at 148! This is with 1g per minute until the last 10 minutes which will be 2g per minute.
Is this going to be too much?! Or is it just a theorectical value?

I think it will be a theoretical value as I've read that beyond a certain IBU humans beings can't detect any more bitterness. Can't remember what the IBU figure was though. And everyone's different sensitivity to bitterness needs to be taken into account too. My head would blow up if I even sipped a 148 IBU beer

 

[TheRedDarren]

The 30/20/10/0 ale with a total of 80g hops for a ten litre batch is 47 ibu.
The 60 minute version is 148 ibu for 83g of hops.
Should I use the same amount of hops or adjust hop amounts to hit the same ibu?

 

[TheRedDarren]

I think it will be a theoretical value as I've read that beyond a certain IBU humans beings can't detect any more bitterness. Can't remember what the IBU figure was though. And everyone's different sensitivity to bitterness needs to be taken into account too. My head would blow up if I even sipped a 148 IBU beer

yes agreed, I've heard it kind of tops out at 100 ibus