Roast barley sub??

[Clint]

As in the title...is there a suitable sub for use in a stout?

Cheers

Clint

 

[AdeDunn]

Depends, if you don't want that harsh roasty flavour then chocolate wheat (basically roasted wheat) is much nicer.

 

[simon12]

My understanding is when it was 1st used it was banned because there was no duty on it as it was unmalted so they invented patent malt to replace it

 

[IainM]

Black malt

 

[Oneflewover]

Is there a like for like sub?
I've been using carafa special 3 in my stouts (albeit I don't have a lot of experience of brewing darker beers) for colour, richness and body. But I also like the roasty notes, in moderation, that RB brings

 

[AdeDunn]

My understanding is when it was 1st used it was banned because there was no duty on it as it was unmalted so they invented patent malt to replace it

According to Ron Pattinson in The Home Brewer's Guide To Vintage Beer (good read, recommend it), it was invented to colour porters, in place of, lets call them less savoury things, that were been used prior to legislation brought in in 1816 which banned the use of anything in beer other than water, hops, malt and yeast. So not saying this didn't include roasted barley (this not been malt), but the legislation was also to protect people from the sometimes toxic additives been chucked into porter prior to this.

Black malt is however a good alternative too, I just prefer the flavour from chocolate wheat. It's just so smooth and not harsh... lol

 

[The Baron]

Plus one on that Ade it is really smooth and not harsh I too have also used Carafe special III and that works also without too much harshness

 

[MrRook]

I used blackprinz in a cream stout with good results. To me it tastes like a mellow version of roast barley.

 

[simon12]

According to Ron Pattinson in The Home Brewer's Guide To Vintage Beer (good read, recommend it), it was invented to colour porters, in place of, lets call them less savoury things, that were been used prior to legislation brought in in 1816 which banned the use of anything in beer other than water, hops, malt and yeast. So not saying this didn't include roasted barley (this not been malt), but the legislation was also to protect people from the sometimes toxic additives been chucked into porter prior to this.

Black malt is however a good alternative too, I just prefer the flavour from chocolate wheat. It's just so smooth and not harsh... lol

Interesting I thought is was just about the duty. Also to add chocolate or carafa may be preferred by some people but patent black is the nearest alternative.

 

[AdeDunn]

Interesting I thought is was just about the duty. Also to add chocolate or carafa may be preferred by some people but patent black is the nearest alternative.

Sadly not, people had literally been getting poisoned by the garbage that less scrupulous brewers had been using to darken porters with up to the introduction of the legislation.

I really do recommend that book to anybody with an interest in brewing history, along with Brewing Porters and Stouts by Terry Foster, and Brewing Britain by Andy Hamilton. Those 3 books do a good job of having a nose into the history of British beer (which basically means porters... lol).

Oh and no, I quite agree that chocolate wheat tastes nothing like roasted barley or black malt, for me that's the whole point. It doesn't taste like chocolate malt either. It add none of the bitterness that any of these add. It's perfect for adding mouth feel and a dark colour, without adding any bitterness. In fact if anything it adds a sweet grainy flavour. The problem I have though is, to me the main flavour I get from roasted barley and black malt is one of burned coffee, and I'm not keen on it. That's why I like the combination of pale chocolate malt and chocolate wheat, you get a very dark beer, with no burned flavours.

If however you like those burned roasty flavours, then no that won't work at all. lol

 

[Clint]

Thanks all for such a fantastic and varied response!
I've ordered the roast barley as I do like the toasty flavours in stout!
Hopefully it'll turn up tomorrow.....early....then I brew!