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Stout flavours... HBF decides

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Brewnaldo

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Brewing a stout tomorrow, and I am going to be adding some flavours to the FV.

I cannot decide on a combo of beans.

The options are tonka (pretty sure this one will be getting used) then vanilla, cocoa nibs or coffee beans.

Decide for me brothers and sisters
 

LED_ZEP

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I've made the odd stout (from kits, I'm more of a wine man than a beer brewer) and I like it with around 4tbls of black treacle added to 40pts. But then I made Marmite wine so don't listen to me.
 

strange-steve

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One of the nicest stouts I ever tasted was Lervig 3 Bean which uses tonka, vanilla, and cocoa beans.
 

Brewnaldo

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One of the nicest stouts I ever tasted was Lervig 3 Bean which uses tonka, vanilla, and cocoa beans.
Yes your posts on the subject whilst I was planning this beer inspired me to get the tonka beans involved. Donyou have any thoughts on the method of use for them and how much? I think the bag I ordered only has 5 beans I was assuming less might be more based on what I have read about them.
 

Hazelwood Brewery

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I like Tonka in a stout, and vanilla, and cocoa, and coffee, and coconut, and hazelnuts, and whisky soaked oak chips. Tonka beans are quite toxic though.

... unlike alcohol 🙄

The recipes I’ve seen all add Tonka to the fermenter after a few days (like dry hopping). The beans are usually ground and added to spirit to kill the things you don’t want in your beer. I’ve never done this myself though, yet.
 
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strange-steve

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Ah right, I knew I'd gushed about that beer before 😋

Honestly mate I haven't a clue where to start, I hadn't even heard of a tonka bean till I had that beer :confused:
 

Clint

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Brew York do a Tonka bean stout...and very good it is!
What's not very good is that this year I shall not be going in my annual jolly to York "Christmas shopping"...which involves Mrs Clint and her friend going shopping and me and my mate disappearing on a bender all day... visiting a variety of hostelries,eating some tasty fare along the way and generally getting ****** up.
I'm quite sad now...
 

Brewnaldo

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Tonka beans havent arrived yet and I have no coffee or vanilla yet either, so there will be no boil additions of that nature.

Which gives me time to seek further advice from you all regarding these additions.

So the tonka is a wildcard really as my searches on here havent yielded many examples of folks using it.

I need to choose two of three from cocoa, vanilla and coffee to go alongside for my three beans. I'd love to hear thoughts on that

And finally, I have read about these types of additions. Coffee I would "cold bean". Cocoa nibs and vanilla beans, I think the consensus seems to be vodka tincture. Any further thoughts on that, and also for a 5 gallon batch how much of those three to get good flavour
 

An Ankoù

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I've made the odd stout (from kits, I'm more of a wine man than a beer brewer) and I like it with around 4tbls of black treacle added to 40pts. But then I made Marmite wine so don't listen to me.
Was it any good?
The marmite wine, I mean.
 

NormanHurst

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There's a good episode of the By The Mash Tun podcast about Coffee Stout where the head Brewer at (I think) Siren talks through the various ways they have added coffee to beers and the pros and cons of each. Worth a listen.
 

Clint

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I've had a quick look...some suggest one bean per 5 gallon batch at 15 minutes...others soak 2-3 beans in vodka and add to fermented beer.
Apparently they contain a toxin that causes liver damage....be careful how much you use in a 10%+ stout!
The danger level is "30 beans"...
 

Brewnaldo

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I've had a quick look...some suggest one bean per 5 gallon batch at 15 minutes...others soak 2-3 beans in vodka and add to fermented beer.
Apparently they contain a toxin that causes liver damage....be careful how much you use in a 10%+ stout!
The danger level is "30 beans"...
I think I will crush 1 or 2 beans then, and soak in vodka. It's too late to add to the boil as it's in the FV now.

I might go with 2. I want to be able to distinguish the flavour. That leaves me with the choice of vanilla, coffee and cocoa. Or would it be too much to put it in a bit of each and make a 4 bean stout....
 

Clint

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I'd email Brew York and ask them...they can only tell you to "do one".
 

Clint

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Cinnamon,nutmeg and lavender all contain the same "toxic" substance as Tonka beans called couramin...yet they are not "banned" in the USA,tonka is still used in cooking in the US, usually shaved onto food like truffles. Combined aroma and flavours that can be expected from Tonka include cherry,vanilla,honey and fresh grass.
 

LED_ZEP

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Was it any good?
The marmite wine, I mean.
I put a little too much clove in it so that's the main flavour but after a few month aging it's drinkable (just) but it'll get used for cooking. If you look past the clove it's "interesting" so I may revisit and leave the spices out.
 

Brewnaldo

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Well then. The decisions are all but made. Tonka, coffee and cocoa are my 3 beans of choice. Vanilla missed on this occasion as I actually have the other 3 to hand. Plus the Tonka smells a bit of vanilla and I want it to push through. It actually smells sensational.

So I have 5 crushed tonka beans in vodka just now, 125 grams of nibs in vodka to soak and maybe skim some fats, and some coffee beans which I think I will quickly rinse with vodka and lob in. Thinking 100 grams of whole beans
 

Brewnaldo

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Just a post to add Brew York to list of brewing good guys, having offered the following advice on the use of Tonka....



The key thing with Tonka is that a little goes a long way. You certainly won’t need much at all at homebrew scale.


Please however read up the toxic effects of coumarin which is present in Tonka Beans. If you were to over-do it (which is hard to do) it can be lethal.

I would estimate for a typical homebrew of about 19-21L you should be able to get a prominent enough flavour from 5 beans. Fortunately our friends across at Malt Miller sell these in that quantity (Tonka Beans | The Malt Miller)

To get the best out of them you need to macerate them. So you need to crush them (as opposed to blending them) to best release the flavour. I suggest then making a tincture using either neat vodka (which you can do at homebrew scale) or a tea using hot water (as we have to). The beauty of then having your flavouring in liquid form as that you can gradually dose and taste until you get to the flavour level you are happy with.

The point of addition is best in secondary (i.e. when the beer has fully fermented and is maturing). If you do it the above way the flavour hit is pretty instant so you would be able to package your beer shortly after.

I hope you have fun with Tonka. It’s an amazing ingredient!

All the best,


Lee
 

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Great guys, and a great brewery. Imperial Tonkoko is astonishingly good.
 
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