Would you swap your all in one?

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dcbrookes said:
What I didn't like about the G40:

1. Too big and heavy. The CIP was a PITA; it is so much easier to put the BZ beside the sink and hose it clean. I estimate that I save half an hour compared with the G40.
2. The grain basket on the G40 allows too much malt to escape. I used setting 5 on the GF grain mill on both machines and vitually nothing escapes the grain basket on the BX.
3. The bottom screen on the G40 is a poor design as many users have said on various social media. The bottom screen on the BZ G4 is much better and lets almost nothing through.
4. The way the G40 is plumbed, with everything going through the pump to get to the tap is a blockage waiting to happen. The BX pipework is re-routable to prevent this. In fact I fitted a second tap and tee piece to my G40 to avoid this.

The two main reasons I bought the G40 were:

1 I was sick of boil-overs on my previous BZ Gen.3. The BZ extension piece solves this problem as it brings the capacity up to that of the G40 - I usually boil about 29 litres for a 24 litre quantity in the fermenter.
2 The control panel on the BZ Gen.3 was too near the floor for my aged back and knees - not a problem with the BZ Gen.4
Click to expand...
Very helpful, thanks for this
 
Old Fart At Play said:
Very helpful, thanks for this
Click to expand...
I bought @dcbrookes G40. With his modifications and following his recommended approach to only putting in the bottom screen after the mash and using a sieve to catch any circulating grain, I am happy with it. As @dcbrookes indicated and you will know from your own experience, it is a bit of a beast and I do CIP it. I’m reassured by the fact that the main components like the element, pump and control box can be replaced. Having said that I came from a 3 vessel system based on a 30 litre Burco so it is my first experience of an all-in-one. I brew batches of 35 litres into fermenter, so the sizing works well for me.
 
Wynne said:
I bought @dcbrookes G40. With his modifications and following his recommended approach to only putting in the bottom screen after the mash and using a sieve to catch any circulating grain, I am happy with it. As @dcbrookes indicated and you will know from your own experience, it is a bit of a beast and I do CIP it. I’m reassured by the fact that the main components like the element, pump and control box can be replaced. Having said that I came from a 3 vessel system based on a 30 litre Burco so it is my first experience of an all-in-one. I brew batches of 35 litres into fermenter, so the sizing works well for me.
Click to expand...
Yes, I love my G40. I was interested to hear the problems DCBrookes had, but luckily I don't have them.

Grain escaping - not a problem for me, maybe thanks to my ancient hand milling machine, who knows. Never been an issue on mine though.
Big and heavy - true, but gorgeous. I don't worry about that. Lighter than a G70! Maybe a dolly or wheeled lift is in my future though.
Bottom screen - was a real PITA originally, but GF replaced it with the new design and it has worked flawlessly ever since.
Blockage - since new hop filter fitted, again not a problem for me.

I hope you have as good an experience with it as I do.

Cheers
 
I'm a 3-4V guy that recently brought a Brewzilla gen 4 for single batches (23L cube) and recipe dev, can't say im sold on the 1V vs my 3V

There is always a compromise, I know why people go down this route, in saying that these days I tend to do double batches minimum (46L) I also have a 170L kettle I need to start using once my old 70L kettle has TC welded on for use as an MLT
 
I have a Braumeister 20 and i have been toying with getting a G40 like @nickjdavis did. Reason being the max grain bill of 6kg (or 7kg if you have the bac brewing disc). This limits bigger beers over 6%. yes you can double mash or brew short, but i want a standard 23l batch size of something above 6% without having to spend 8 hours double mashing.

Don't get me wrong, the build quality is great and there are many positives for a BM20, but sometimes have a hankering for a G40.... first world problems I guess.
 
starseeker said:
I sold my Klarstein Maishfest and bought a 40l Darkfarm brew vessel , i am very ,very pleased with it and i will never need to change it for anything else
Click to expand...
I upgraded from G30 to Brewtools B80 as was looking for more volume. If the DarkFarm vessels had been released at the time I would probably have got one of them, they look fantastic and at a much more sensible price than Brewtools.
 
RichardM said:
Why was that? Just for more volume?
Click to expand...

Siscokid85 said:
I have a Braumeister 20 and i have been toying with getting a G40 like @nickjdavis did. Reason being the max grain bill of 6kg (or 7kg if you have the bac brewing disc). This limits bigger beers over 6%. yes you can double mash or brew short, but i want a standard 23l batch size of something above 6% without having to spend 8 hours double mashing.

Don't get me wrong, the build quality is great and there are many positives for a BM20, but sometimes have a hankering for a G40.... first world problems I guess.
Click to expand...
Reasons for changing - Like all brewing systems the BM had some limitations/quirks/idiosyncrasies. Some of which could be worked around, some which perhaps linger as mild annoyances.

For me I guess there were a couple of reasonably major points...

1...the 6-6.5kg practical limitation to the grain in the malt pipe...mash efficiency notably drops off once you get above 6kg of grain in the malt pipe. Yes if you want to brew a bigger beer you can brew short, or do an iterated mash, boil longer....yes you can just about squeeze 7kg in if you use a "yield increase disc/filter" or you can add fermentables (D/LME) to the boil...but at the end of the day they are all what I would call compromises.

2...without wanting to drastically increase my production levels (at the time, I brewed maybe 17-18 20L batches a year) there were times that I wanted to brew a longer brew length...competitions, sharing etc etc. Yes, there was nothing really to stop me brewing say 25L on the BM...but that requires an increase in grain to achieve similar strengths and starts putting us back into point 1 above territory. Generally I now find I'm brewing 23-25L batches since moving to the G40....my limitation now is my FV size and I don't really want anything bigger as I wouldn't be able to haul it easily into my fermentation fridge.

Minor irritations...

3...extracting as much of the wort from the BM into the FV as possible...the 5L deadspace under the tap is a lot of beer to "lose"....yes I know grain is (or was!!) cheap and I could increase grain to get my required brewlength/strength but once more we start getting into 1 and 2 above....and you know...it still "hurts" to leave 5L of wort that could potentially be the best beer you've ever brewed in the bottom of the BM
:lol:
I've tried other solutions such as fitting a racking arm to the inside of the BM outlet...reasonably successful, I've used the BAC Brewing springer system....great concept, works perfectly with plain water but the moment you start introducing sticky sugary wort and maybe some hops into the equation I found it didn't work so well...unless you put a pump on the outside tap and sucked the wort out...then it is perfect!! There are other solutions...Speidels device that uses the BM's own pump to drive the wort up a tube via the same hole that the pump uses to pump through the mash....this actually works very well....but you know what....its yet another device and piece of tubing to clean and sanitise!!

4...relatively low powered heating element...slow temperature ramp up times makes for a long brew day....I brew outside in my garage at all times of the year and despite having the BM ThermoCollar, and an additional layer of foil backed bubble wrap thermal insulation, the painstakingly slow 1 degree per minute heating rate does make for an extended brew day...another 500w on the BM20 heating element would be ideal in my opinion!!....the 2.9kw element of the G40 has proved to be a big improvement.

5...weak boil...again brewing outside in the winter you really notice this...effectively the same underlying reason as 4...the domed lid does help in this regard. I have no such issues with the G40 boil.

6...cleaning....getting behind those spiralled BM heating elements was a real pain...especially with leaf hops...cleaning the non visible side of the spiral elements also wasn't easy. Cleaning the G40 is a breeze by comparison.

Don't get me wrong....I'd had my BM for 6 years and done roughly 100 brews on it before deciding to chnge....it was and still is an excellent piece of kit but, times move on, other newer devices offer alternative ways of doing things (and, no doubt, also come with their own set of compromises!!!) and potentially improve upon older models.

I have no regrets about making the change.
 
I changed from the GF S40 to BZ Gen4 as the GF cheaper model was seriously flawed.
First brew on the BZ Gen4 went well but used the onboard controller as I couldn’t get the RAPT to connect!
Got a support thread running but went on hols so not resolved yet but no doubt me being a dumb-ass.
 
nickjdavis said:
Reasons for changing - Like all brewing systems the BM had some limitations/quirks/idiosyncrasies. Some of which could be worked around, some which perhaps linger as mild annoyances.

For me I guess there were a couple of reasonably major points...

1...the 6-6.5kg practical limitation to the grain in the malt pipe...mash efficiency notably drops off once you get above 6kg of grain in the malt pipe. Yes if you want to brew a bigger beer you can brew short, or do an iterated mash, boil longer....yes you can just about squeeze 7kg in if you use a "yield increase disc/filter" or you can add fermentables (D/LME) to the boil...but at the end of the day they are all what I would call compromises.

2...without wanting to drastically increase my production levels (at the time, I brewed maybe 17-18 20L batches a year) there were times that I wanted to brew a longer brew length...competitions, sharing etc etc. Yes, there was nothing really to stop me brewing say 25L on the BM...but that requires an increase in grain to achieve similar strengths and starts putting us back into point 1 above territory. Generally I now find I'm brewing 23-25L batches since moving to the G40....my limitation now is my FV size and I don't really want anything bigger as I wouldn't be able to haul it easily into my fermentation fridge.

Minor irritations...

3...extracting as much of the wort from the BM into the FV as possible...the 5L deadspace under the tap is a lot of beer to "lose"....yes I know grain is (or was!!) cheap and I could increase grain to get my required brewlength/strength but once more we start getting into 1 and 2 above....and you know...it still "hurts" to leave 5L of wort that could potentially be the best beer you've ever brewed in the bottom of the BM
:lol:
I've tried other solutions such as fitting a racking arm to the inside of the BM outlet...reasonably successful, I've used the BAC Brewing springer system....great concept, works perfectly with plain water but the moment you start introducing sticky sugary wort and maybe some hops into the equation I found it didn't work so well...unless you put a pump on the outside tap and sucked the wort out...then it is perfect!! There are other solutions...Speidels device that uses the BM's own pump to drive the wort up a tube via the same hole that the pump uses to pump through the mash....this actually works very well....but you know what....its yet another device and piece of tubing to clean and sanitise!!

4...relatively low powered heating element...slow temperature ramp up times makes for a long brew day....I brew outside in my garage at all times of the year and despite having the BM ThermoCollar, and an additional layer of foil backed bubble wrap thermal insulation, the painstakingly slow 1 degree per minute heating rate does make for an extended brew day...another 500w on the BM20 heating element would be ideal in my opinion!!....the 2.9kw element of the G40 has proved to be a big improvement.

5...weak boil...again brewing outside in the winter you really notice this...effectively the same underlying reason as 4...the domed lid does help in this regard. I have no such issues with the G40 boil.

6...cleaning....getting behind those spiralled BM heating elements was a real pain...especially with leaf hops...cleaning the non visible side of the spiral elements also wasn't easy. Cleaning the G40 is a breeze by comparison.

Don't get me wrong....I'd had my BM for 6 years and done roughly 100 brews on it before deciding to chnge....it was and still is an excellent piece of kit but, times move on, other newer devices offer alternative ways of doing things (and, no doubt, also come with their own set of compromises!!!) and potentially improve upon older models.

I have no regrets about making the change.
Click to expand...

I am not going to cherry pick and I understand & agree with 1 & 2. The rest can be resolved & modified away easily either with process or engineering and time reduced drastically.

My apologies in advance I am biased 😁 and no offence is meant.

It is good to hear your views comparing a GF40 thankyou. Every day is a school day here 😁
 
nickjdavis said:
Reasons for changing - Like all brewing systems the BM had some limitations/quirks/idiosyncrasies. Some of which could be worked around, some which perhaps linger as mild annoyances.

For me I guess there were a couple of reasonably major points...

1...the 6-6.5kg practical limitation to the grain in the malt pipe...mash efficiency notably drops off once you get above 6kg of grain in the malt pipe. Yes if you want to brew a bigger beer you can brew short, or do an iterated mash, boil longer....yes you can just about squeeze 7kg in if you use a "yield increase disc/filter" or you can add fermentables (D/LME) to the boil...but at the end of the day they are all what I would call compromises.

2...without wanting to drastically increase my production levels (at the time, I brewed maybe 17-18 20L batches a year) there were times that I wanted to brew a longer brew length...competitions, sharing etc etc. Yes, there was nothing really to stop me brewing say 25L on the BM...but that requires an increase in grain to achieve similar strengths and starts putting us back into point 1 above territory. Generally I now find I'm brewing 23-25L batches since moving to the G40....my limitation now is my FV size and I don't really want anything bigger as I wouldn't be able to haul it easily into my fermentation fridge.

Minor irritations...

3...extracting as much of the wort from the BM into the FV as possible...the 5L deadspace under the tap is a lot of beer to "lose"....yes I know grain is (or was!!) cheap and I could increase grain to get my required brewlength/strength but once more we start getting into 1 and 2 above....and you know...it still "hurts" to leave 5L of wort that could potentially be the best beer you've ever brewed in the bottom of the BM
:lol:
I've tried other solutions such as fitting a racking arm to the inside of the BM outlet...reasonably successful, I've used the BAC Brewing springer system....great concept, works perfectly with plain water but the moment you start introducing sticky sugary wort and maybe some hops into the equation I found it didn't work so well...unless you put a pump on the outside tap and sucked the wort out...then it is perfect!! There are other solutions...Speidels device that uses the BM's own pump to drive the wort up a tube via the same hole that the pump uses to pump through the mash....this actually works very well....but you know what....its yet another device and piece of tubing to clean and sanitise!!

4...relatively low powered heating element...slow temperature ramp up times makes for a long brew day....I brew outside in my garage at all times of the year and despite having the BM ThermoCollar, and an additional layer of foil backed bubble wrap thermal insulation, the painstakingly slow 1 degree per minute heating rate does make for an extended brew day...another 500w on the BM20 heating element would be ideal in my opinion!!....the 2.9kw element of the G40 has proved to be a big improvement.

5...weak boil...again brewing outside in the winter you really notice this...effectively the same underlying reason as 4...the domed lid does help in this regard. I have no such issues with the G40 boil.

6...cleaning....getting behind those spiralled BM heating elements was a real pain...especially with leaf hops...cleaning the non visible side of the spiral elements also wasn't easy. Cleaning the G40 is a breeze by comparison.

Don't get me wrong....I'd had my BM for 6 years and done roughly 100 brews on it before deciding to chnge....it was and still is an excellent piece of kit but, times move on, other newer devices offer alternative ways of doing things (and, no doubt, also come with their own set of compromises!!!) and potentially improve upon older models.

I have no regrets about making the change.
Click to expand...

I agree with all that nick, I think the BM is a great well engineered bit of kit, I think if they did a BM30 with a concealed 2.9kw element and a second pump or y-piece and valve to a pumped outlet then it would be brilliant. I brought the bac brewing dip tube/ racking arm type thingy that reduces the dead space to virtually nothing, that works great..... when I remember to fit it before heating the strike water up! 😖

With the G40, I like the idea of splitting a 38l batch occasionally between two fermenters and being able to experiment with different dry hopping or yeast.

I think if I was to get a G40 I would wait before moving the BM on just to make sure I was happy with it. That said, I dont think there is a lot of residual value in the BM on the basis people can go out and buy a brand new G40 with a warranty for less than what I would really want to sell a BM for that cost me close on £1800 new.

I also like the look of the dark farm brew tank, a friend of mine brought one of their conical uni tank fermenters and its a lovely piece of kit. Their brew tank is probably the closest thing you can buy off the shelf in the UK to a clawhammer supply set up.
 
Siscokid85 said:
BM30 with a concealed 2.9kw element and a second pump or y-piece and valve to a pumped outlet then it would be brilliant. I brought the bac brewing dip tube/ racking arm type thingy that reduces the dead space to virtually nothing, that works great
Click to expand...

What you need is has a lower pumped tap. (like mine 😂)

The bac disk, is the same as turning the original over. (Ditto)

You forgot to mention the bac mash paddle. I have the prototype, published long before theirs 😉

I said I want going to cherry pick. Look what you made me do 🙄🙄
 
MashBag said:
What you need is has a lower pumped tap. (like mine 😂)

The bac disk, is the same as turning the original over. (Ditto)

You forgot to mention the bac mash paddle. I have the prototype, published long before theirs 😉

I said I want going to cherry pick. Look what you made me do 🙄🙄
Click to expand...
Not the yield increase disc, I got one of these:

https://www.bacbrewing.com/en/parts-for-braumeister/615-sifone-per-braumeister-altezza-50-mm.html
It works well, you can pick all the crud out the bottom if you want or you can just cut it before it draws the worst out.
 

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