Carlsberg Marstons

[peebee]

The Beer Orders that required a guest ale were abolished in 2003, …

That was a scary read. Seems I've been successful hiding away in deepest Wales; I've completely lost touch with the scary things happening to the English beer industry (Wales never had much of one). But if I'm to be dragged back into knowledge of brewery current affairs, I can look forward to the local response to that other anxiety rich topic (Covid19) to re-establish Offa's Dyke as a defensive structure and so return life to hiding away from such unsavoury things.

(I hope they remember to rebuild the dyke the other-way-round: Offa was one of the "proto-English").

 

[Northern_Brewer]

never had much difficulty finding pubs that sold decent cask ales...

If cask is still 11% of the beer on-market, then the kind of beer geeks who are geeky enough to hang out on beer forums should be able to find pubs with decent cask. That's not my argument.

But we are getting to the point where it's starting to struggle in the kind of pubs that normal people go to - particularly because it's the nature of cask that it needs people to keep drinking it through the week. That suits a world where everyone knocked off from a factory and on the way home went to the pub for a few jars of mild every night. But we're now in a world where for a lot of people their only drinks "out" are during Sunday lunch out with the family - and occasional drinkers, drinking at the weekend but not during the week, is a market that is much better suited to keg than cask.

To be fair to Marstons, they've recognised that and have been selling off a lot of their town centre wet-led pubs and using the proceeds to build modern equivalents of Harvester or Toby Grill in the suburbs, to cater for that weekend family market.

The rise of the micropub can be viewed as a sign of the problems in the pub market - and that particular ecosystem is really badly prepared for Covid lockdowns, they tend to be ill-suited to social distancing and don't have much financial capacity to absorb shocks like the current one. There's going to be a lot closing in the coming months, both micropubs and the breweries that supply them. And they're a blip in the global scale of things, they're like 1% of the total pub estate by numbers, less than that if you go by floor space.

 

[trummy]

A few months ago I thought that micropubs were the future but as NB states they are stuffed at the moment. Locally one bright ray of sunshine is a couple of pubs have got rid of the now insipid Doombar and one replaced it with one of my favourites TT Landlord - just in the right position for a stop on my way home after a bike ride.
Unfortunately a lot of people are more comfortable knowing what they are buying - just like a Big Mac - it may be **** but its consistent ****
Would like to give NB the thumbs up but too depressing but correct.

 

[Galena]

A few months ago I thought that micropubs were the future but as NB states they are stuffed at the moment. Locally one bright ray of sunshine is a couple of pubs have got rid of the now insipid Doombar and one replaced it with one of my favourites TT Landlord - just in the right position for a stop on my way home after a bike ride.
Unfortunately a lot of people are more comfortable knowing what they are buying - just like a Big Mac - it may be **** but its consistent ****
Would like to give NB the thumbs up but too depressing but correct.

Ahh Doombar, another beer that used to be okay but has suffered at the hands of Molson Coors I guess, so go in any Marstons tasteless Foody pubs and the choice for cask ale is Pedigree or Doombar

 

[marshbrewer]

I don't like to get all beer snobby and slag off a beer just because it's fairly common, but even I struggle to defend Doombar. It's so blooming bland.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Locally one bright ray of sunshine is a couple of pubs have got rid of the now insipid Doombar and one replaced it with one of my favourites TT Landlord

The main reason for sports-led pubs to have Doom Bar is that Coors gives very useful discounts on Sky if they take multiple brands from Coors, and since Carling is pretty much a must-have for that kind of pub, certainly up north, then Doom is a useful addition to help get a Sky discount (considering Sky can cost pubs £1000+ per month).

But obviously that's been less of an attraction in the last few months...

Only danger for pubs is that Landlord is one of the most expensive beers for them to buy, and they often feel compelled to price it at "normal" cask prices, so they can be squeezed for margin, although higher turnover compensates for that. And they tend not to cellar it for long enough, it takes an age to condition properly.

Must admit, I can't remember when I was last in a Marston pub, but if they were serving Doom then presumably that was a result of a deal with Coors for Carling, which will now be switching to Carlsberg.

 

[trummy]

'The main reason for sports-led pubs to have Doom Bar is that Coors gives very useful discounts on Sky if they take multiple brands from Coors, and since Carling is pretty much a must-have for that kind of pub, certainly up north, then Doom is a useful addition to help get a Sky discount (considering Sky can cost pubs £1000+ per month).'

It is noticeable around here that pup co ran pubs nearly all have Pedi on tap - maybe as its a traditional thing Pedi has a long history, but I wonder if its due to generous discounts offered - its usually on tap along with DB - presumably because of the above.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

maybe as its a traditional thing Pedi has a long history, but I wonder if its due to generous discounts offered

Probably a bit of both - I get the sense that around Burton folk do have a greater loyalty than most both to brown bitter in general and to the local brews, and given that InBev have completely lost the plot with respect to Bass, putting on Pedi is an easy choice for publicans, they know they can sell it.

 

[terrym]

Probably a bit of both - I get the sense that around Burton folk do have a greater loyalty than most both to brown bitter in general and to the local brews, and given that InBev have completely lost the plot with respect to Bass, putting on Pedi is an easy choice for publicans, they know they can sell it.

Many years back the locals didn't think too much of Marstons beer. However apparently the head brewer from one of the Bass breweries was appointed (or so the story goes) and turned them round, just about the time the other town breweries were either shutting down or in merger mode.
And some time back the best pint of handpumped Pedigree used to be in the Albion next to Marstons (Albion) Brewery and for gravity fed the Bridge at Tatenhill. Haven't been to Burton for some time. It would be interesting to know if things have changed.

 

[Garmostripel]

Both Trooper and Old Tom are good beers, IMHO.

Have you tried the Robinson’s Ginger Tom? Very smooth It’s in bottles at B+M

 

[trummy]

Many years back the locals didn't think too much of Marstons beer. However apparently the head brewer from one of the Bass breweries was appointed (or so the story goes) and turned them round, just about the time the other town breweries were either shutting down or in merger mode.
And some time back the best pint of handpumped Pedigree used to be in the Albion next to Marstons (Albion) Brewery and for gravity fed the Bridge at Tatenhill. Haven't been to Burton for some time. It would be interesting to know if things have changed.

The Albion is still there - The Bridge is an Italian restaurant now - I did have a pint there many years ago. Never heard the story re head brewer. Back in the 70s both beers were considered icons but Bass abandoned the Union method and conditioning in oak casks and Marstons altered the recipe adding wheat to give it a head among other things. Burton did have a small brewery renaissance with Burton Bridge, The Cottage, Tower and Black Hole brewery's and the Heritage brewery associated with the museum. At least one has closed, one has relocated, and the last I heard Burton Bridge was for sale - all before lockdown so no idea whats happening now. Still an interesting place to do a pub tour and a sight see (before lockdown)

 

[Galena]

Back in the 70s both beers were considered icons but Bass abandoned the Union method and conditioning in oak casks and Marstons altered the recipe adding wheat to give it a head among other things.

Yes my early drinking days were all either Pedigree or Bass and indeed they were held in high esteem, I never did know when or what Marstons did to the recipe but I knew it had changed for the worse so it is interesting that thet added Wheat, not at all the same mouthfeel and whats with this head? Neither Pedigree nor Bass had heads, both totally flat with that wonderful Burrton Water kind of winey mouthfeel especially from the better pubs who served it straight out of the barrel, gone forever I guess.

 

[marshbrewer]

Have you tried the Robinson’s Ginger Tom? Very smooth It’s in bottles at B+M

I've often see that, but by and large I'm not a fan of beers with non-beery adjuncts (ginger, plums, etc etc) so gave it a wide berth. Perhaps I should get a bottle to see what it's like.

 

[An Ankoù]

2 of the best brews wychwood did were the dogs ******** and toothless hooker, but my fav was blackwitch

The DBs was an excellent pint . I've neveer had Toothless Hooker, but Black Witch was more than half decent.

 

[An Ankoù]

The Beer Orders that required a guest ale were abolished in 2003, it was after that Wolves/Marstons bought up the likes of Ringwood so that they could provide the illusion of choice on the bar whilst keeping it all in house.

In fairness to Marstons, Ringwood houses, or at least the Porterhouse and the Angel had all the Ringwood beers on and also added Shipyard and probably Pedigree was there somewhere. That was 6 years ago, mind. I don't know if things have changed more recently.

The underlying problem is that cask ale is in decline, and beer in general is an industry that is all about scale, so it's really tough for the smaller breweries to be competitive selling into the national market. Hence you've seen the likes of Wells and Thwaites sell their national brands to Marston's, get rid of their old big brewery, and use the cash to build a smaller, modern brewery to just supply their tied pubs.

A good example of local Brewing was the now defunct Poole Brewery which made only two brews, Dolphin Bitter and Bosun Bitter. Both were excellent beers and were available either from the brewery or from their pub on Poole High Street. The Owner and Brewer, I understand didn't drink beer, but he brewed a fine pint for several decades. When he'd had enough he sold the land where the brewery was for development and stocked Milk Street of Somerset (another small brewery- now Frome Brewery) beers in his pub. His beer in The Brewhouse was massively cheaper than elsewhere, perhaps half price- it's a while ago now. That's the way to do it. Beer is too precious to be a global commodity and there's no good reason why it needs to be. How much of your £5 pint actually goes towards the cost of brewing the beer and duty? How much on branding, marketing, advertising, transport, snazzy pub overheads, accountancy fees, estate management, etc, etc. I'd rather not pay for any of those things. I'd rather the brewer and the pub staff got the benefit of my hard-earned.

 

[trummy]

Galana - They have a head now - I remember the very best Pedi had not a bubble but it does now - not that I drink it if I can help it. But of course its been re classified as an Amber Ale by the marketing dept.

 

[MickDundee]

I don't like to get all beer snobby and slag off a beer just because it's fairly common, but even I struggle to defend Doombar. It's so blooming bland.

The only thing I can taste in Doom Bar is the taste you get from fermenting a beer too hot. Horrible stuff!

 

[Galena]

Galana - They have a head now - I remember the very best Pedi had not a bubble but it does now - not that I drink it if I can help it. But of course its been re classified as an Amber Ale by the marketing dept.

Sorry my post was mis-leading, I meant I was surprised when it first appeared with a head, like you I don't drink it if I can help it and agree the best pedi had not a bubble.

 

[An Ankoù]

The only thing I can taste in Doom Bar is the taste you get from fermenting a beer too hot. Horrible stuff!

Truly mingin', I agree.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Burton did have a small brewery renaissance with Burton Bridge, The Cottage, Tower and Black Hole brewery's and the Heritage brewery associated with the museum. At least one has closed, one has relocated, and the last I heard Burton Bridge was for sale - all before lockdown so no idea whats happening now.

BB has been up for sale for 2-3 4 years hasn't it? Or was it bought and then it's up again? Their DBA is outstanding, one of my absolute favourite bitters, shame they no longer seem to be doing it.

The story of how two old hands in the brewery game chose their yeast is interesting, particularly in the context of modern brewers getting excited about kveik for its speed of turnover. Might be worth harvesting some before any sale (and if anyone happens to know what NCYC yeast it is???).

Having worked in larger breweries with multi yeast cultures it was decided that it was very important to have an independent yeast supply. The yeast was selected from the National yeast collection catalogue, now based in Norwich. Five strains were selected for being
A) Topped cropping, for ease of skimming
B) Comparatively slow fermentation for better fermentation control and being able to stop the fermentation in time so Priming sugars would not be required
C) Quick fining for commercial advantages in the free trade
D) A chain former for ease of identity under the microscope
These five yeasts were propagated and then brewed in 5 gallon buckets to evaluate flavour. By chance the final selection also has a wild yeast killer factor.
New cultures were propagated every month and now only when considered necessary the last one being some eight years ago. The propagation is started from a stored slope into two 25 ml bottles from there into litre flasks, then into a 5 gallon home brew fermenter before being pitched into the brewery fermenting vessel. Malt extract is used to grow the yeast in.