Recurring infection - old irish moss??

[Brucey224]

Relatively new to brewing and have done about 15 brews total now but have had recurring infections on 3 out of the last 4 batches but never before.
I always felt like before i got away with a lot of unsanitory practice and beer turned out fine (although still with a couple of moderate off flavours that I'm sure all newbies experience).
So I had my first infection and decided that I had to clean up my act. Only thing is that infections kept occuring...
So have now had infections on 3 out of the last 4 batches and i think its because of old rish moss used at the end of the boil (last 10 mins). The only one batch i didnt use it in was a hazy IPA where i just thought '**** it that doesn't need fining' and that turned out delicious.
Had a look at the irish moss recently and its been kept in the cellar for a while which is quite damp and the irish moss had what looked like mold on it (white specks) but hard to tell given that it looks and smells nasty anyway.
Could this be causing infection even if its been in the boil for 10 mins? I can't think of anything else!

 

[Linalmeemow]

Relatively new to brewing and have done about 15 brews total now but have had recurring infections on 3 out of the last 4 batches but never before.
I always felt like before i got away with a lot of unsanitory practice and beer turned out fine (although still with a couple of moderate off flavours that I'm sure all newbies experience).
So I had my first infection and decided that I had to clean up my act. Only thing is that infections kept occuring...
So have now had infections on 3 out of the last 4 batches and i think its because of old rish moss used at the end of the boil (last 10 mins). The only one batch i didnt use it in was a hazy IPA where i just thought '**** it that doesn't need fining' and that turned out delicious.
Had a look at the irish moss recently and its been kept in the cellar for a while which is quite damp and the irish moss had what looked like mold on it (white specks) but hard to tell given that it looks and smells nasty anyway.
Could this be causing infection even if its been in the boil for 10 mins? I can't think of anything else!

Unlikely to be anything that goes in during the boil that's causing it. I'd give the FV a good soak in thin bleach then rinse several times, it's much more likely to be something on the cold side causing the problem.

 

[foxbat]

Chuck the Irish Moss anyway, it's cheap to replace with a tube of Whirlfloc tablets then do as @Linalmeemow says and nuke your cold side equipment with bleach.

Also disassemble your kettle tap/valve and check for black mold in there as well. There's a Brulosophy article where a recurrent infection was tracked down to an infection in the kettle tap.

 

[Hanglow]

Irish moss is fine, and it works great. Be sure to rehydrate it in cold water to ensure it works properly.

Anything over 74c wet is pasteurized almost immediately. Your problem is elsewhere. Look at your ball valves, cleaning and sanitising procedure etc

 

[Brucey224]

I think my sanitation procedure is quite clinical. Normally run warm PBW for a few hours after brewday, circulating through the wort chiller and then followed by boiling water circulating for half an hour or so. Ill soak fermenter in PBW overnight before and then keep it in starsan from the start of brewday ready for transfer from kettle.
I'll normally circulate boiling wort through wort chiller for 10 mins before transfer too so i thought that was ok. Im sure to make sure that the end and outside of the silicone transferring into my fermenter is covered in starsan to ensure it doesn't contaminate.
Havent used the same fermenter after a batch has been infected in it either.
Has anyone had any experience in disassembling grainfather pump? Thats the only thing i can imagine harbouring nasties

 

[Clint]

What wort chiller...? Waste of time as the inside touches nothing...

 

[Brucey224]

Its a counterflow chiller, so wort goes through one pipe and cold water goes in the opposite direction

 

[Clint]

Ok..

 

[An Ankoù]

Had a look at the irish moss recently and its been kept in the cellar for a while which is quite damp and the irish moss had what looked like mold on it (white specks) but hard to tell given that it looks and smells nasty anyway.

If you have an infection, it's not from the Irish moss, but it sounds like the Irish moss is causing the problem. If it smells horrible and has mouldy spots on it then it is tainting your beer. I imagine it tastes "fishy". It's not just infections that can cause off flavours.
Ditch the stuff. Never put anything that doesn't look or smell right into your beer.

 

[Brucey224]

Have just looked back over my notes and realised that there was another common factor with spoiling batches. I think i have been adding too much lactic acid! Tested my pH meter in buffering solution and realised that after i calibrate it, it will automatically turn off and then totally lose the calibration. So it turns out i have been using wayyyy too much lactic acid to correct pH. Could this just be killing the yeast and letting other nasties take hold in the beer?

 

[An Ankoù]

Have just looked back over my notes and realised that there was another common factor with spoiling batches. I think i have been adding too much lactic acid! Tested my pH meter in buffering solution and realised that after i calibrate it, it will automatically turn off and then totally lose the calibration. So it turns out i have been using wayyyy too much lactic acid to correct pH. Could this just be killing the yeast and letting other nasties take hold in the beer?

A quick googling of "Does lactic acid kill yeast" comes up with very little other than "Key to a healthy vagina"!!!
On the whole, yeast is pretty acid tolerant and lactic acid isn't a strong acid. How much did you put in there? Did the beer taste acidic? I use acidulated malt in most of my lager recipes (which contains lactic acid) and if I overdo it, I can taste the lactic acid. It does inhibit the yeast, though.

 

[strange-steve]

How does the infection present itself? In other words how do you know it is infected?

 

[Brucey224]

Added ~20ml to 20L batch. Tried an online calculator accounting for water chemistry and it recommended less than 5ml addition lol...

Beer tastes very overly sour and white bubbly pellicles start appearing a few days after krausen settles out.

 

[strange-steve]

The addition of 1ml/l lactic acid might explain the sour taste, the max recommended dose is about 0.4ml/l. I don't think the acid would account for any infection though. Brewing yeast is pretty tolerant of low pH, a lot more so than most bacteria and in fact pre-souring wort with lactic acid is a method that's used to reduce the risk of bacterial contamination when kettle-souring. That being said it won't help with a lacto infection.

 

[Justin Dean]

I do know if Bering a lambic for example, introducing wild yeast they can affect subsequent beers in that so should reserve that for other lambics for example only. Skimming on sanitation will result in this and now is the time to clean everything up solidly.

Good luck.

Sure you got away with it but an infection if a tight space on the fermenter or a scratch and it is a goner.

How did you go about cleaning everything up, what did you use please?

I always clean up everything properly after the brew, some things whilst the brew is going on.

More efficiency in process, build cleaning into your process, have large sink of some sort ) ( i use a plastic horse trough)and water (hosepipe or plumbed) ( i use hose pipe plumbed in through connector to tap in garage when i need it) in your brew area so you can rinse down item as you go is very handy, big step forward, like temp control fridges, like some sort of drainage (i fit push fit plastic piles for sink to outside the garage during the cleaning and the cooling of the boil phases, easy big steps

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Also disassemble your kettle tap/valve and check for black mold in there as well. There's a Brulosophy article where a recurrent infection was tracked down to an infection in the kettle tap.

I always open the kettle tap and run off some boiling wort into a cup with 5 mins to go to sanitise the inside of the tap then pour it back in.