Covid the jab and the final stage.

[Leon103]

I thought it might be a can of worms, but it’s interesting that someone can expose another to known issue and have no come back just because they ‘don’t believe in it’.

I think at the very least, shops and the like should be made to display the status of COVID vaccinations of the staff. I think that should be a given.

What about beekeepers. Would be liable if someone died because they got stung?

 

[Leon103]

I agree with you that there is no legal requirement at present.
My thoughts are that there should be some mechanism for the the general public to make an informed decision as to whether they feel it’s safe to enter a shop or business.
For example, food establishments are required to state, VERY clearly the possible allergic reactions people may have to any ingredients. People have died from taking a bite of a takeaway through lack of information.
personally, I wouldn’t be eating out if I was that allergic to things, but the law says it’s a must, and it’s very strict.
Fortunately, not too many people die of it now, due to the law change.

What happened to good old communication? You could have asked your hairdresser if she has had both jabs? Have they said that having the jabs means you can't carry the infection? Not up to speed on the news but if it is possible to be a carrier then your argument is void.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I agree, DoJ google do Muslims drink alcohol and i think you will be surprised.

Wow. I stand corrected I've always made sure no alcohol related beer deliveries end up being left with a muslim neighbour. A friend of my son from a muslim family was gay, ate bacon and drank alcohol but I just thought he must have renounced the 'faith' So all bar one I know don't.

 

[Polcho]

At the end of the day all the laws and legistration in the world will not help, best to look after yourself, and to throw another in the mix why are the press calling it freedom day it's not or if you are french Le Grande Pissup day

Freedom day is just another headline made up by the press because they can’t find anything shocking enough to write or talk about.

 

[Covrich]

Obvioulsy a lot of chat about vaccines being a prevention but it will certainly not erracticate it altogether. However its good to see medication which is ground breaking at saving lives and significantly reducing death via drip.




______________________________


Exactly a year on from the discovery that a cheap steroid drug prevented Covid deaths, researchers say they have found another life-saving therapy.
It is expensive - a potent intravenous infusion of antibodies to neutralise the virus, rather than dampen the body's inflammatory response to it.
Results from the Recovery trial suggest it could help one in three of those in hospital with severe Covid.
For every 100 patients treated, experts calculate, it would save six lives.
Ground-breaking treatment
But only those who have not already made any antibodies of their own to fight the virus should be given the treatment, which costs between £1,000 and £2,000.
Kimberley Featherstone, 37, who received the treatment during the trial, said: "I feel very lucky that the trial was up and running by the time I was taken to hospital with Covid-19 and I was able to receive this ground-breaking treatment.
"I'm happy that by participating I played a part in finding out this treatment is successful."
The monoclonal antibody treatment, made by Regenoron, binds to the virus to stop it infecting cells and replicating.
In the trial, which included nearly 10,000 UK hospital patients, it significantly reduced the:

• risk of death
• length of hospital stay, by four days on average
• likelihood of needing a ventilator to breathe

Joint chief investigator Sir Martin Landray said: "Giving them this combination of two antibodies by an intravenous infusion then actually reduces their chances of dying by a fifth.
"What we found is now here we can use an antiviral treatment, in this case these antibodies, in patients who have got a one in three chance of dying untreated and we can reduce that risk for them."
Great uncertainty
The treatment was given in addition to the anti-inflammatory steroid drug dexamethasone, which itself cuts death risk by up to a third for the sickest Covid patients.
Sir Peter Horby, the other chief investigator, said there had been great uncertainty about whether antibody therapies were the right approach, when some other studies had found no benefit.
Using blood plasma from recovered patients - which contains antibodies that should recognise and fight the virus - has not proved effective as a Covid therapy, for example.
But the antibody treatment used in the Recovery trial contains large doses of two specific antibodies, made in the lab, that are good at latching on to the pandemic virus.
Sir Peter said: "It is wonderful to learn that even in advanced Covid-19 disease, targeting the virus can reduce mortality in patients who have failed to mount an antibody response of their own.

 

[Wynne]

No she wouldn't. You need both actus reus and mens rea for the crime to be committed. Don't think the CPS will get that one home. There would be a fair argument though and if successful would open a can of worms. Flu jabs etc etc.

For murder you must have intention to kill or cause GBH, none are present here.

Involuntary manslaughter - no unlawful act by your hairdresser so no offence. You could look at manslaughter by gross negligence but i don't see that the hairdresser as a duty of care for you or their customers. It would be different if the death was caused by some chemical used to dye your hair and your hairdresser knew that she shouldn't use it on you but went ahead anyway.

I disagree. A hairdresser does have a duty of care to her clients, in fact, she has a duty to act with “reasonable skill and care”. An intentional refusal to protect clients from the risk of Covid 19 could be regarded as “reckless” and, if she did cause death through Covid 19 infection, could give rise to a conviction for manslaughter. The case would turn on the evidence and, ultimately, depend on the view of the jury.

 

[alfajerry]

I'm more worried about the ridiculous number of NHS staff who have refused their vaccine.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I disagree. A hairdresser does have a duty of care to her clients, in fact, she has a duty to act with “reasonable skill and care”. An intentional refusal to protect clients from the risk of Covid 19 could be regarded as “reckless” and, if she did cause death through Covid 19 infection, could give rise to a conviction for manslaughter. The case would turn on the evidence and, ultimately, depend on the view of the jury.

The argument is its people's choice. OK taking that argument forward its customers choice not to use her shop so she should be honest and display a "I've refused the vaccine" sign in her shops window. Same with all businesses tell the customers and let them make a choice.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So the governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have said they have no plans to make Covid jabs mandatory for care home staff but England are being forced to have it, i would be talking to my union rep or a solicitor if i was effected by this.

BBC News 37 minutes ago -
Covid vaccine to be compulsory for England care home staff

Workers are expected to be given 16 weeks to have the jab, the BBC has been told.
If they do not, they face being redeployed away from front-line care or potentially lose their job.
Mr Hancock told the House of Commons that the "vast majority of staff in care homes" were vaccinated, but not all of them.
"We know that the vaccine not only protects you but protects those around you," he said, adding that compulsory vaccinations in care homes and hospitals would save lives.
Care organisations have warned that compulsory vaccinations could cause significant difficulties in a sector that already struggles to recruit enough people.
The government, however, is believed to have considerable concerns about low take-up of the vaccine in some areas, including London.
A Whitehall source told the BBC that guidance to doctors that they should take the Hepatitis B vaccine suggested there is a precedent for mandatory vaccination.

• What happened to care homes early in the pandemic?
• How many people have been vaccinated so far?
• When will I get the vaccine?

Workers who can prove they are medically exempt from getting the vaccine will not be affected.
But governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have said they have no plans to make Covid jabs mandatory for care home staff.
It comes as the UK recorded a further 9,055 confirmed Covid


FULL ARTICLE - Covid vaccine to be compulsory for England care home staff

 

[Leon103]

I disagree. A hairdresser does have a duty of care to her clients, in fact, she has a duty to act with “reasonable skill and care”. An intentional refusal to protect clients from the risk of Covid 19 could be regarded as “reckless” and, if she did cause death through Covid 19 infection, could give rise to a conviction for manslaughter. The case would turn on the evidence and, ultimately, depend on the view of the jury.

You can disagree but manslaughter by gross negligence covers duty to care and not duty to act. Read R v Mistra and Srivastava

The breach of duty of care, having regard to the risk of death involved, so bad that it amounted to a criminal act or omission which constitutes gross negligence. I don't think failing to have a jab is a criminal offence.

Duty to care is covered by

S - serious RTC
O - omission by police
C - contract i.e. level crossing operator
P - parental responsibility
A - assumed responsibility
D - Dangerous situation.

 

[Wynne]

Wha

You can disagree but manslaughter by gross negligence covers duty to care and not duty to act. Read R v Mistra and Srivastava

The breach of duty of care, having regard to the risk of death involved, so bad that it amounted to a criminal act or omission which constitutes gross negligence. I don't think failing to have a jab is a criminal offence.

Duty to care is covered by

S - serious RTC
O - omission by police
C - contract i.e. level crossing operator
P - parental responsibility
A - assumed responsibility
D - Dangerous situation.

Interesting, I’ll read the case. What is your legal qualification?

 

[Wynne]

You can disagree but manslaughter by gross negligence covers duty to care and not duty to act. Read R v Mistra and Srivastava

The breach of duty of care, having regard to the risk of death involved, so bad that it amounted to a criminal act or omission which constitutes gross negligence. I don't think failing to have a jab is a criminal offence.

Duty to care is covered by

S - serious RTC
O - omission by police
C - contract i.e. level crossing operator
P - parental responsibility
A - assumed responsibility
D - Dangerous situation.

Thank you, that’s an interesting case setting out the law on gross negligence manslaughter. I think the situation of the hairdresser would be considered as recklessness rather than gross negligence if she has decided not to be vaccinated so knows that she is putting her customers (for whom she has a duty of care in contract) at risk.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Leon103]

Wha
Interesting, I’ll read the case. What is your legal qualification?

The usual, law degree, LPC and then BPTC

 

[Wynne]

i thought I detected a forensic mind at work. Do/did you practice at the Bar? I pre-date the LPC, I did a law degree, Part ll, then a career in practice. Covid 19 has thrown up a lot of difficult/interesting legal questions.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

BBC News - Full article -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57525891

UK coronavirus infections have risen slightly in the last week, with an estimated 119,000 people - up from 110,000 - now positive for the virus.

The Office for National Statistics figures, up to 12 June, suggest one in every 540 people is infected.
The more infectious Delta variant accounts for almost all of the cases, says Public Health England.
There is some regional variation in infection rates, however, and some good news on vaccine efficacy.
North-west England had the highest proportion of people of any region in England likely to test positive for coronavirus in the week to June 12 - around one in 180.
Eastern England had the lowest estimate - around one in 2,480.
The trend is "uncertain" in Scotland and Northern Ireland, says the ONS, while in Wales the latest estimate is one in 1,500 people infected - down from one in 1,300 in the previous week - although first minister Mark Drakeford says a third wave of Covid is under way linked to the Delta variant.

• Headache and runny nose linked to Delta variant

Vaccines are working well against Delta

According to latest data from PHE, a single dose of vaccine reduces a person's chances of catching coronavirus and needing hospital treatment by about 75%, even with Delta circulating in the UK.
And among people who had received the recommended two doses, the chances of catching and being hospitalised by coronavirus was reduced by more than 90%.
Of 806 people infected with the Delta variant who ended up hospital in England between 1 February and 14 June 2021:

• 527 (65%) people were unvaccinated
• 135 (17%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
• 84 (10%) were more than 14 days after their second dose

As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test, and of these:

• 34 (47%) were unvaccinated
• 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
• 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

BBC North West

@BBCNWT

Surge testing to start in Cumbria, following an increase in the number of confirmed cases of the Delta variant. Everyone aged 12-30 years old who lives, works or studies in Cumbria is strongly encouraged to take a COVID-19 PCR test, whether they are showing symptoms or not.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We are going to be bringing our coronavirus updates to a close soon so here's a recap of the day's news:
BBC News.

• The UK has recorded 10,000 new coronavirus cases for the third day in a row
• Queues formed at pop-up vaccination centres at football grounds in London
• They're part of a major push to offer coronavirus jabs to all remaining adults
• A total of 218,636 first doses and 188,858 second doses were given in the UK yesterday
• It was the second day in a row more that first doses were administered than second
• Surge testing is starting in Leeds, Cumbria and south London after a spike in Delta cases
• A trial is examining if fully-vaccinated people in England who come into contact with coronavirus could avoid having to isolate for 10 days by taking daily tests, a government source told the BBC
• Almost 100,000 Covid vaccine certificates have been issued in Scotland since they went live on the NHS Inform website.
• Russia's capital Moscow reported 9,120 new coronavirus cases - a record number for the second day in a row
• And Japan had turned six viewing areas for the Tokyo Olympic Games into vaccination centres to stop the spread of the virus

Summary

1. Walk-in vaccine clinics are opening in England, in a major push to offer coronavirus jabs to all remaining adults
2. Queues have formed at pop-up vaccination centres at football grounds in London, including Chelsea and West Ham's stadiums
3. More first doses of vaccines were given than second jabs on Thursday and Friday, reflecting the push to get the UK's younger adults vaccinated
4. The UK records more than 10,000 daily cases for the third day in a row - after months of lower figures
5. A new wave of infections is definitely under way in England, says Prof Adam Finn of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation
6. But epidemiologist Dr Mike Tildesley says he is "cautiously hopeful" hospital admissions will not be on the same scale as in January
7. Labour is calling for workers to have the right to work flexibly before coronavirus restrictions are fully lifted in England
8. Some people on furlough are avoiding a return to work because it has been "great" for them, says Tory MP Andrea Leadsom
9. The Palestinian Authority has cancelled a deal under which Israel was to give it one million Pfizer jabs because they were too close to expir