Improving Brews

[UKSkydiver]

At the request of @UKSkydiver i have moved these posts out of his thread and into this - C_T.


I've done the Southern Brown Ale recipe from the GH book, with a couple of subs based on what I had in at the time and I think i brewed it to get a little higher ABV.

Probably my best brew yet, but still has a 'taste' to it as do all of my brews.

This was one of the brews I entered in to the forum August English Bitters Comp run by Hopsteep, which other than the high carbonation, he seemed very complimentary about.

 

[An Ankoù]

Probably my best brew yet, but still has a 'taste' to it as do all of my brews.

I'm curious. What is this "taste" of which you speak?

 

[UKSkydiver]

I'm curious. What is this "taste" of which you speak?

I wish I knew.
My brews are all a bit same-y - or at least they have the same sort of background taste. They're not bad, I don't think.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as homebrew twang, but even then, I'm not entirely sure what that is. Maybe it is that.

I use different recipes, different malts, different hops (generally low IBUs), different yeasts, all dried up to now.
I use campden, I have temp control, I reduce alkalinity

I've added kit and knowledge to my arsenal, I'm still enjoying the journey, but all of these things have not yet provided the 'promised' "beer as good as you get in pubs, but at home"

 

[An Ankoù]

I wish I knew.
My brews are all a bit same-y - or at least they have the same sort of background taste. They're not bad, I don't think.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as homebrew twang, but even then, I'm not entirely sure what that is. Maybe it is that.

I use different recipes, different malts, different hops (generally low IBUs), different yeasts, all dried up to now.
I use campden, I have temp control, I reduce alkalinity

I've added kit and knowledge to my arsenal, I'm still enjoying the journey, but all of these things have not yet provided the 'promised' "beer as good as you get in pubs, but at home"

Wish I lived a bit closer and could swap a bottle or two. Is there a common ingredient or process that could give the same "taint" to each beer or are you being over-critical of your efforts? I used to think that if my imitation of say, Riggwelter, wasn't spot on, it was a failure (which it was as an imitation) while others, not knowing what it was "supposed" to be, thought it was lovely.
Either way, I hope you nail it soon. For what it's worth, I still haven't managed to brew a bottle-conditioned bitter I'm happy with.

 

[pms67]

I sometimes wonder if it’s the curse of a homebrewer to never be satisfied with their own beer, every hobby has a downside.
The more I brew the more I pick faults in every beer, I think back to when I first brewed a Coopers Blonde and thought it was that good I handed 20 bottles out at work!
Now I add 300 bloody grams of hops and think naah something is up.
The quest for perfection gets harder, the thing is , if I ever achieve it, absolutely no-one is getting a bottle

 

[An Ankoù]

I sometimes wonder if it’s the curse of a homebrewer to never be satisfied with their own beer, every hobby has a downside.
The more I brew the more I pick faults in every beer, I think back to when I first brewed a Coopers Blonde and thought it was that good I handed 20 bottles out at work!
Now I add 300 bloody grams of hops and think naah something is up.
The quest for perfection gets harder, the thing is , if I ever achieve it, absolutely no-one is getting a bottle

I also wonder if, having paid whatever a pint in a pub costs, these days, we don't just drink it and think it's good because we've paid for it.

 

[ChilledGecko]

Yes, yes. Exactly that! It’s never quite good enough.
But never bad enough to throw away....

I’ve had some real rough pints in public houses but, hey-ho, it’s not that bad that I’d complain about it.

The perfection goal is a curse and a blessing for home brew.
Todays brew is ok, tomorrow’s will be better.

Cheers!

 

[UKSkydiver]

Wish I lived a bit closer and could swap a bottle or two. Is there a common ingredient or process that could give the same "taint" to each beer or are you being over-critical of your efforts?

Should probably move this out of this thread.

Common items:
Maris Otter on all I think
Dried yeasts, although different manuf and strains
Water, although starting to treat to some small degree, certainly not adding chems for a full water profile. Also tried with a percentage of bottled water.

Process:
BIAB - generally 10-11 litre batches
No chill. Either leave in the boil pot overnight to cool, lid on. Sometimes I sit in a couple of sinkfulls of cold water to get the main temp down, then leave overnight.

Plus I may be being over critical.

Always happy to send a couple of bottles for feedback. I know you're across the water.

 

[Galena]

Process:
BIAB - generally 10-11 litre batches
No chill. Either leave in the boil pot overnight to cool, lid on. Sometimes I sit in a couple of sinkfulls of cold water to get the main temp down, then leave overnight.

When are you sealing the lid on, straight after the boil or when it has cooled below 70C?
What temperature is your wort when you pitch and are you rehydrating your yeast or sprinkling dry, how much and if rehydrated whet temperature is the yeast?
Do you have any specific temperature(s) for your fermentation or is it a bit hit and miss?

 

[An Ankoù]

Should probably move this out of this thread.

Common items:
Maris Otter on all I think
Dried yeasts, although different manuf and strains
Water, although starting to treat to some small degree, certainly not adding chems for a full water profile. Also tried with a percentage of bottled water.

Process:
BIAB - generally 10-11 litre batches
No chill. Either leave in the boil pot overnight to cool, lid on. Sometimes I sit in a couple of sinkfulls of cold water to get the main temp down, then leave overnight.

Plus I may be being over critical.

Always happy to send a couple of bottles for feedback. I know you're across the water.

A couple of thoughts: if the "taste" is consistent, are you using a 25 Kg bag of MO that's been hanging around a while or buying same from a homebrew supplier with old stock. I have a stainless steel pan which I used once for boiling some water and letting it cool overnight. The next morning I found traces of what looked like rust above the water line and a metallic smell. Clutching at straws here, but trying to nail down what's causing the taste.
Can you describe what this taste is like?

I'll happily PM you my address and I'd love to taste your beer. Equally I'd love to reciprocate, but we're talking about £15 postage here and I'd have to wait until someone is coming over and going back to make it feasible.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Bump.

 

[UKSkydiver]

When are you sealing the lid on, straight after the boil or when it has cooled below 70C?
What temperature is your wort when you pitch and are you rehydrating your yeast or sprinkling dry, how much and if rehydrated whet temperature is the yeast?
Do you have any specific temperature(s) for your fermentation or is it a bit hit and miss?

Good questions

The boil itself is lid off, then lid on to keep **** out, two sink fulls of cold water, then leave in the sink overnight to chill to ambient (in the garage, so a little less than room temp)

I would say wort has been 18-20, as my latest brews would have been brewed spring / summer.

The first couple of brews I rehydrated in about 60-90ml of warm water, no warmer than 25c. Probably the last three or so brews I've just pitched straight on to the top and gave it a little stir. (My recent research tells me that I really should be making the effort to rehydrate in 30c water)

I don't have full notes on yeast pitching rates, the last three are definitely 1/2 packets, the one before that was 0.7 packet and the earlier ones would have been full packets.

I have a ferm fridge and it's set to 18-22c depending on brew and fermentation stage and that stays constant as it's controlled with an Inkbird.

 

[UKSkydiver]

A couple of thoughts: if the "taste" is consistent, are you using a 25 Kg bag of MO that's been hanging around a while or buying same from a homebrew supplier with old stock. I have a stainless steel pan which I used once for boiling some water and letting it cool overnight. The next morning I found traces of what looked like rust above the water line and a metallic smell. Clutching at straws here, but trying to nail down what's causing the taste.
Can you describe what this taste is like?

I'll happily PM you my address and I'd love to taste your beer. Equally I'd love to reciprocate, but we're talking about £15 postage here and I'd have to wait until someone is coming over and going back to make it feasible.

Also good questions

I don't buy in bulk, so all of the base malts will do no more than 2 brews, and from different suppliers at different times. The speciality malts can be around for a while.

Pan is pretty new (bought specifically for AG) and is a 'decent' make, Russell Hobbs for the difference it makes. All clean and shiny.

Bizarrely, I don't really know what yeast tastes like, but I'd describe it as a yeasty taste behind the taste of the beer itself. This is what I think I am describing as the brews being same-y.

I always let the brews clear and avoid shaking the bottles when I take from the fridge. I open carefully and pour in one go (where possible) and leave the bottom 0.5 cm or so in the bottle.

For example, my hefe is actually quite nice. It's got that light Belgian-y thing going on with clove - or banana, whichever, but in the background, this taste. It's not heavy, but I think it's discernable.

A guy I know does home brew and his doesn't seem to have this taste, although his are much hoppier and he's been doing it for over 15 years.

 

[Clint]

Have you taken any water mineral recordings or got your water tested?
I think my beers have definitely improved after delving into water treatment...nothing major,treat with Camden,then follow a few basic water profiles for different types.
Also don't be over critical of yourself..if you like It you've done a good job!

 

[UKSkydiver]

Have you taken any water mineral recordings or got your water tested?
I think my beers have definitely improved after delving into water treatment...nothing major,treat with Camden,then follow a few basic water profiles for different types.
Also don't be over critical of yourself..if you like It you've done a good job!

Yes.
Well - yes I have a generic water report (I know it's not perfect) and I have the Alk and Ca Salifert tests.

I think that all but the first brew I have treated with campden / SMB

My Ca measurement is 120ppm

My alk is measured about 180ppm (as CaCO3) and the last five brews I have treated with ~12ml CRS for ~14-15litre strike water. The two brews before that I used about 1/2 bottled water and 1/2 tap water to at least reduce everything in the right direction.

 

[An Ankoù]

If I understand you right, you're getting a faint taste of banana/cloves in all your beers. While it's good in a wheat beer it's inappropriate in other styles. Is that right?

 

[UKSkydiver]

If I understand you right, you're getting a faint taste of banana/cloves in all your beers. While it's good in a wheat beer it's inappropriate in other styles. Is that right?

No - I have probably confused the situation somewhat. I'm told I do this a lot

So - I've brewed stouts, a couple of bitters, a porter and a hefe.

The point was that the hefe tastes as it should, with 'nanas or whatever, and the stouts and bitters all taste as they should, like stouts and bitters, but that they all have a background taste which I am unable to describe, only maybe a a bit yeasty. And even that might be wrong.

 

[Galena]

Good questions

The boil itself is lid off, then lid on to keep **** out, two sink fulls of cold water, then leave in the sink overnight to chill to ambient (in the garage, so a little less than room temp)

I would say wort has been 18-20, as my latest brews would have been brewed spring / summer.

The first couple of brews I rehydrated in about 60-90ml of warm water, no warmer than 25c. Probably the last three or so brews I've just pitched straight on to the top and gave it a little stir. (My recent research tells me that I really should be making the effort to rehydrate in 30c water)

I don't have full notes on yeast pitching rates, the last three are definitely 1/2 packets, the one before that was 0.7 packet and the earlier ones would have been full packets.

I have a ferm fridge and it's set to 18-22c depending on brew and fermentation stage and that stays constant as it's controlled with an Inkbird.

I have read somewhere advice not to put the lid on after the boil until the wort gets below 70C to avoid the risk of DMS, I have no idea if this is good advice but I usually only partially cover until below 70C as habit now.
It is generally recommended that the temperature of the yeast or starter is lower than the temperature of the wort when pitching as the other way round can stress the yeast and you risk off flavours so I am now always careful to do this, at least this is the case when using a starter but for rehydrated dry yeast Im not sure but certainly won't hurt.
Seems like you have your fermentation well controlled.

 

[Galena]

but that they all have a background taste which I am unable to describe, only maybe a a bit yeasty.

A yeastlike flavour can possibly be because the beer is too young

 

[Covrich]

Have you taken any water mineral recordings or got your water tested?
I think my beers have definitely improved after delving into water treatment...nothing major,treat with Camden,then follow a few basic water profiles for different types.
Also don't be over critical of yourself..if you like It you've done a good job!

I do think this can help! I dont go overboard either camden tablet and some CRS depending on what I am doing.. I havent gone "Mad" on water treatment and some styles do seem a lot easier to get right whereas some seen tougher to knock out the park for me and I am convinced that is part to do with water profile..

HOwever I have to ask What yeasts do you use? for example I have found CML yeasts I have made have all been much worse than an equivalent I made with a better yeast..

I also think Clint is right we are our own biggest critics sometimes