Verdant Putty

Discussion in 'General Recipe Discussion' started by Braindead, Jan 17, 2019.

Help Support The Homebrew Forum UK by donating:

  1. Feb 13, 2019 #101

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    It is, particularly 2018 - Which is way more harsh than 2017's - I may well dial it back a little. It does calm down a fair amount with conditioning though. So a good 3 weeks in the keg really helps. Also, none on the hot-side will mean it should be less harsh.

    My last brew had around the same amount of Galaxy in it, it did start off pretty full-on, but did mellow over time. It definitely takes more time than some of the other varieties to show its true colours.

    EDIT: After doing a bit more research into Galaxy, it does seem that the amounts in my recipe might be a little over the top...
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  2. Feb 13, 2019 #102

    beervoid

    beervoid

    beervoid

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    The pulp recipe calls for 1oz of galaxy. I've had problems with it going above 3oz... Conditioning for a month didn't help. Would not use it in the whirlpool either.
     
  3. Feb 13, 2019 #103

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    I think you are right.. I wouldn't use any Galaxy on the hot-side at all. I'd say reduce the Galaxy in my recipe by half :)
     
  4. Feb 14, 2019 #104

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    I must be mad. Started brewing my updated recipe at 8:30pm. It’s now 11:30 and I’m halfway through the boil. Thankfully no major dramas

    I can only brew in the evenings as I have 2 under 3 year olds. My oldest would burn himself as I only have the space to do it in my kitchen.

    Totally going on instinct with this brew. What I get from Putty and my limited brewing experience. I could be way, way off.

    I’m going for 70g Mosaic/Azzacca in the whrlpool ar 80 degrees. To avoid too much bitterness creeping in. and my plan is to use. 50 grams of galaxy/Azacca/Mosaic for biotransformation step. This will give the Galaxy time to mellow a bit before the dry hop.

    Decided to use London Ale 3 in the end as well, rather than Imperial Juice. I’m going to use that for an Azacca smash I have planned. Never used Azacca before and want to work out what sort of hop it is in a clean beer.

    Then 80 Azacca/Mosaic and 50 Galaxy for the dry hop. Kind of dialled it all back a bit. Thought it best to be more conservative and tweak this recipe. Rather than just chuck everything at it

    It’s still a pretty ridiculous hop schedule. What I’m really hoping works is my water calculations. If I can get the mouthfeel right everything else is just hop tweaks. I know the grain bill is pretty much right.

    Will keep this thread updated on how it all turns out and what I think could be done to tweak it into the right place.

    I’m already considering removing the 1Kg Maris Otter and replacing that with Wheat Malt. Putty is pretty thick and porridge-like. I’m not sure oats are actually that important and do seem to add to oxidation issues in NEIPAS in my experience.

    My volume caculations brought everything right up to the top end of what The Grainfather can cope with. So I was sitting there for 10 minutes at the start of the boil tweaking the heat by hand to stop it boiling over. I actually ended up adding 10 mins to the boil to compensate for this pissing about.

    Right. Going to drink a Verdant and crack on. It’s now 11:40 and there is still 20 mins on the boil and a 30 min whirlpool to do.

    Meh. It’s only work in the morning. I’d rather be doing this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    Hoddy likes this.
  5. Feb 17, 2019 #105

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    NULL
    Hows it looking so far?
     
  6. Feb 17, 2019 #106

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    It's fermenting pretty fast. Already at 1.020 - Dry hopped yesterday. Looking pretty murky..

    Should complete fermentation in a day or so... Then the big dry hop charge
     
  7. Feb 18, 2019 #107

    Hoddy

    Hoddy

    Hoddy

    General lurker.......

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,880
    Likes Received:
    782
    Location:
    East Hants
    I’m hopefully planning on being able to brew my version this weekend as long as the Dan vs Hod beer dry hopping continues to go to plan and I keg and brew in the same day.
     
    asha23 likes this.
  8. Feb 18, 2019 #108

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    First time using a Tilt for this brew. It’s gone back up to 1.032. After going down to 1.020 after chucking in some biotransform hops. Possibly didnt help that I added the tilt after 3 days into fermentation as I got it for my birthday and you are supposed to add it at the start. . Seems to have settled down now. Will be raising the temp daily by 0.5 to 21 when it gets to 1.025 or so. (Been fermenting at around 19)
     
  9. Feb 19, 2019 #109

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    It’s now at around 1.020 so am ramping the temp up over the next few days. Hoping to get it to between 1.011 - 1.014 or so by Friday morning to then add the big dry hop over the weekend. Then will cold crash it down.
     
  10. Feb 19, 2019 #110

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    NULL
    those tilts look amazing but surly can't work with a heavy dose of dry hops??
     
  11. Feb 19, 2019 #111

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    At first it was a bit shaky. But I actually took a real gravity reading and gave it a little nudge and it’s back on point. It’s a couple of points out perhaps. Good enough to give me an idea of how things are going generally.

    It’s a bit of a toy. It's not as accurate as it could be. But it's temp readings are useful, and knowing when generally to up the temp to get the yeast to attenuate fully is also quite handy, without having to keep taking the lid off the FV.

    I just took an old school hydrometer reading and it was 1.020. The Tilt said it was 1.019... So it seems pretty accurate-ish...

    Tasting the beer at this point. Very low bitterness and the whirlpool hops seem to be shining. Pretty tropical fruit already. The mouthfeel is very soft. Which is what I was hoping for.

    A way to go yet, and TBH it tastes nothing like Putty - Maybe just a hint of it. but we’ll see after the dry hop how close I got. Whatever happens it's looking like a very nice NEIPA... If not what we are looking for exactly.

    I have a suspicion that Verdant throw way more hops at their beers than people realise. Not sure if they centrifuge. If they do, we’ll never be able to homebrew anything close to their stuff really. As having a centrifuge means you can really aggressively hop beer and then remove a lot of the vegetal burn by spinning it out.

    I also have a sneaking suspicion that they are adding Sodium Chloride to some of their water treatments to get that savoury edge... That's not something I'm going to be experimenting with as that's the sort of thing that will make a good beer go s**t real fast. I'm convinced (especially in their latest DIPA, which definitely has a salty undertone to it) that Salt makes an appearance in their more savoury beers... I could be totally off point with that theory though. It would make some sense though, as if you do want a more savoury flavour. Adding a small amount of salt would give you that, rather than the sweet, fruity character of general NEIPA beers.

    Putty isn't really a NEIPA though. Not in the conventional sense, anyway.

    In terms of colour and mouthfeel where it's at so far is pretty much on point. So I’m happy with that. Next brew I think I could even up the Calcium Chloride more. I reckon I could go a gram or so more without it becoming too minerally tasting.

    I was worried about the Galaxy harshness, but none of that seems present. I’m going to re-taste at final gravity and make an assessment of what dry hopping will get it closer to Putty - If by that point it's even possible to. I think it may take upping the Galaxy. As I think I’ve slightly underdone it. We shall see.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  12. Feb 20, 2019 #112

    HopHead420

    HopHead420

    HopHead420

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    NULL
    I can confirm that Verdant do not yet centrifuge their beers. Time and temperature are the only tools they use until their new brewery opens, which is why Putty stays in tank for so long.

    Sodium Chloride in small ish amounts (keeping the Na at or below about 100ppm) will increase mouthfeel coating and finish, and can actually accentuate the sweeter malty side of a beer. As you climb further towards a recognisably salty ppm of NaCL you will get that savoury thing that I agree Verdant beers sometimes display.

    Galaxy is definitely the central hop in Putty, something they have mentioned themselves in previous interviews.
     
  13. Feb 20, 2019 #113

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    Awesome. Thanks for the info.
     
  14. Feb 24, 2019 #114

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    After raising the temp to 22 for a couple of days I have got the OG down to 1.011. Dry hops went in 3 days ago and it’s aroma is really close to Putty now

    Flavour wise it’s not quite there, but it’s really not a million miles away.

    Mouthfeel is good. Could be a little softer. Colour is very close indeed. Possibly needs more galaxy and a little less mosaic.

    Have reduced temp to 10 degrees as fermentation is done. Will dry hop for a couple more days, then cold crash for 24 hours or so before kegging.
     
    Braindead likes this.
  15. Feb 24, 2019 #115

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    NULL
    How you keep o2 out during crashing?
     
  16. Feb 24, 2019 #116

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    Usually just purge the headspace with CO2 and put a cork in the hole. Never had an issue doing it this way.
     
  17. Feb 26, 2019 #117

    asha23

    asha23

    asha23

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Brighton
    37F036A2-A383-4948-A083-625CD7B91421.jpeg

    First pour. Kegged 22 litres. It came out at 7.3% in the end or thereabouts. fg was 1.011. Which is very dry actually. Too dry. Needs the sweetness. But I wanted a lot of beer. So I compromised there.

    There is that kind of Dextrose cideriness about it. Unavoidable, as I wanted 25 or so litres.

    Smell. It’s pretty damned close. Surprisingly so. Definitely has the same spicy notes going on. Galaxy is there. But restrained.

    Flavour. I’d say it’s 50% there. Definitely needs more Galaxy. But the character that Azacca brings is front and centre. So much so that I actually think that Azacca is the defining flavour in Putty. Not Galaxy. The whirlpool flavours seem to be important. If I did this again, I’d double the Azacca in the whirlpool and actually add a small amount of Galaxy. As the aroma is pretty much there. I think a small amount of Galaxy at 80 in the whirlpool will get the flavour closer.

    It’s a very nice beer. Even when as green as it is.

    Colour. The photo doesnt do it justice, but it’s as near as damned to Putty. As I thought. Remove the Maris otter. Substitute with wheat malt. It will make it paler.

    Mouthfeel. I’d say 80%. It’s really soft. Proper NEIPA feel and I’ll be happy to use this water/grainbill as a standard base for every modern IPA I do from now on. (The grist was never something I was that worried about - I had that dialled in from previous brews) - I’ll be upping the chlorides a bit, next time around. Maybe a gram or two. Will make it even softer.

    Will pay a little more attention to mash PH too. Dial that in a bit more.

    It obviously needs 3 weeks in the keg. To mellow. But you can tell what a beer is going to do, Even if it is very, very green.

    Nothing better than a NEIPA when it’s green as ****. The first few pours are always the nicest. Once it’s been sitting there a while. It’ll fade.

    I’d say. More Azacca. More Galaxy, but not a lot more and it’ll be very, very close. Mosaic here seems about right.

    Definitely not 200g of Galaxy in the dry hop. I did 50. Could go 70. And it’d be there.

    Need like 30g of Galaxy in The whirlpool too I think. No matter what Verdant say about hot-side Galaxy. This is homebrew. Not commercial. It needs the flavour from Galaxy as well as the aroma. Plus it’ll add the bitterness too. This beer is not at all bitter. Needs to be a little more.

    Definitely brewing this again with some tweaks. It’s a bloody nice beer. Using Putty as inspiration is good enough for me. I wouldn’t want it to be exactly the same. Where’s the creativity in that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  18. Feb 27, 2019 #118

    Hoddy

    Hoddy

    Hoddy

    General lurker.......

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,880
    Likes Received:
    782
    Location:
    East Hants
    IMG_8335.JPG So my starter for a NEIPA attempt went on this morning. Should mean it's all done and finished in time for a brew day on Sunday
     
    asha23 likes this.
  19. Feb 27, 2019 #119

    Keruso

    Keruso

    Keruso

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    19
    I brewed your grainfather recipe last weekend. I misread the hop additions and bunged in 50g Galaxy into the hop stand at 80c. Sadly that was all the galaxy I had left so will dry hop with Vic Secret instead of galaxy. I also used the BBC hop variety from maltmiller. I don't have kegs so will be bottling. Looking forward to it but I guess will need to be consumed fresh with all those hops.
     
    asha23 likes this.
  20. Feb 27, 2019 #120

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Braindead

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    NULL
    Looks Nice asha, Ill let you know how mine turns out
     
    asha23 likes this.

Share This Page