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the baron

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I think that's a myth that I've seen debunked on various fact check sites.
Quote
Opportunities to prosecute Jimmy Savile for sex offences were missed because police and prosecutors did not take allegations seriously, a report says.
A review of the decision not to prosecute the TV presenter in 2009 was published by the legal adviser to the director of public prosecutions (DPP).
Alison Levitt QC found that had police and prosecutors "taken a different approach" prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three victims.
DPP Keir Starmer has apologised.
He even apologised for it see above
 

the baron

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I live in the Leeds area and most people knew what was going on. He was protected and the police and DPP aka as Keir Starmer buried their heads
 

jjsh

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Yes, but if you look at the full fact link, it wasn't him who made the errors. He quite rightly apologized on behalf of the organisation he led, but he wasn't the reviewing lawyer. I suppose that might be splitting hairs, somewhat, given the captain is supposed to go down with the ship.
 

the baron

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He was the MAN so made the final decision so carries the can as I said many people in my area knew exactly what was going on he used to pick up kids in his Rolls and it was well known
Sorry for going off at a tangent on the thread but it still cuts deep in my area and I like many others in the West Yorkshire will never vote labour while he is at the front of the party
 

Chippy_Tea

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Elections results 2021: Andy Burnham re-elected as Greater Manchester mayor

Labour's Andy Burnham has been re-elected as the mayor of Greater Manchester in a landslide victory.

The 51-year-old was backed by 67.3% of voters to continue as the region's mayor for another term.

Mr Burnham's popularity has seen him become the bookmakers' favourite to become the next Labour leader, even though he is not in the Commons.

Labour candidate Paul Dennett was also re-elected in the Salford city mayoral election, with 59% of the votes.

Mr Burnham became tearful as he thanked his family during an emotional victory speech.

He thanked those who voted for him and promised to continue to be a voice for "all people and communities" and to adopt a "place first" not party approach.
The Labour mayor said his three priorities were "better jobs, better homes and better transport" as he called on the government to "level up" in the north of England.

"Where the government gets it right and treats us fairly I will work with them but where they don't I will challenge them as forcefully as I can," he said.
"Greater Manchester expects nothing less."
 

Chippy_Tea

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Summary
  1. With the majority of Scottish seats in it is clear the SNP will form the next Holyrood government - making it a historic fourth consecutive win for the nationalists
  2. Party leader and first minister Nicola Sturgeon says she wants to see the country through the pandemic and then "give people in Scotland the right to choose their future"
  3. The BBC projects 63 seats for the SNP - two short of an overall majority. Political expert Prof John Curtice says the route to the magic 65 number "is now closed"
  4. Forecasts also suggest the Scottish Conservatives will have 31 seats (no change); Scottish Labour 22 (-2); Scottish Greens 9 (+3) and Scottish Lib Dems 4 (-1)
  5. Smaller parties, including former Scottish first minister Alex Salmond's Alba and George Galloway's All for Unity, are expected to win nothing

Posted at 18:3218:32
Sturgeon: Indyref2 'a fundamental democratic principle'
SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon says a referendum on independence is now "a matter of fundamental democratic principle".
She says: "The people in Scotland must have the right to decide our own future when the Covid crisis has passed."
The first minister says there is likely to be a larger pro-independence majority than in the last parliament.
"The SNP and Scottish Greens both stood on a clear commitment to an independence referendum within the next parliamentary term," she says.
"And both of us said that the timing of a referendum should be decided by a simple majority of MSPs in the Scottish Parliament."
Ms Sturgeon said there was "no democratic justification whatsoever" for Boris Johnson to block a referendum.
"If there is such an attempt it will demonstrate conclusively that the UK is not a partnership of equals and that – astonishingly – Westminster no longer sees the UK as a voluntary union of nations," she added.
"That in itself would be a very powerful argument for independence."
 

Chippy_Tea

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Well she didn't last long -
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner is sacked as party chair and campaign co-ordinator, say Labour sources


Summary
  1. Labour wins the mayoral elections in Greater Manchester, North Tyneside, the Liverpool City Region and West of England
  2. Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner is sacked as party chair and campaign co-ordinator, say Labour sources
  3. The Conservatives have gained more than 200 councillors across England, won control of 11 councils and held on to the West Midlands mayoralty
  4. The SNP is on track to win its fourth term in power in Scotland but is forecast to fall short of an overall majority
  5. Professor Sir John Curtice says a Tory win in Aberdeenshire West leaves no path for the SNP to reach the 65 seats needed for a majority
  6. Boris Johnson has repeated he would reject any calls for a second independence referendum
  7. In Wales, Labour retains control of the Senedd, having won 30 seats - half of the total - with all results in
  8. Results will be announced today for other regional mayors in England and the London assembly
  9. You can watch a special election results programme on the BBC News Channel or at the top of this page
 

Chippy_Tea

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Labour's deputy Angela Rayner has been sacked from her roles as party chair and campaign coordinator following poor results in the English local elections.
The party lost control of several councils and suffered defeat to the Tories in the Hartlepool by-election.
Leader Sir Keir Starmer is expected to reshuffle his frontbench team in the next few days.
Ms Rayner will remain deputy leader of the party as it is a position directly elected by the party members.
She is also expected to be offered another shadow cabinet role.
A Labour source said: "Keir said he was taking full responsibility for the result of the elections - and he said we need to change.
"That means change how we run our campaigns in the future. Angela will continue to play a senior role in Keir's team."
But Labour's former shadow chancellor John McDonnell said the decision to sack Ms Rayner was a "cowardly avoidance of responsibility" and accused Sir Keir of "scapegoating everyone apart from himself".
And shadow cabinet source said they were "totally shocked", adding, "everyone is gobsmacked".
Labour's shadow schools ministers Wes Streeting said he had a lot of respect for Ms Rayner adding that she had a "big responsibility" along with Sir Keir to "lead the party to victory at the next general election".
He said it was "time to take a cold hard look at ourselves to make sure we are changing Labour for the good".

'Real changes'

Meanwhile, Labour's Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham warned the party was still too "London-centric".
Speaking after his re-election on Saturday, Mr Burnham said the party needed to connect with voters differently, and support more powers for English regions.
"I'm getting a bit fed up of saying this to them, but they really do now need to listen and make real changes," he added.
The results in England contrast to Wales, where Mark Drakeford led Labour to its best performance in elections to the Welsh Parliament, falling just short of an overall majority by one seat.
Labour has been in power in Wales - either in coalition or a minority - for the past 22 years.
Thursday's votes, including council and mayoral elections in England, are Labour's first major test since its crushing defeat at the 2019 general election.
Instead of recovering ground, the party suffered a series of setbacks in England, including losing overall control of councils including Sheffield and Plymouth.
The Conservatives also picked up control of several councils, including Nottinghamshire and Basildon, as well as winning Harlow from Labour.
In former heartland Tees Valley, Labour suffered a huge defeat to incumbent Tory mayor Ben Houchen, who increased his share of the vote to 73%.
But Labour did win mayoral contests in a number of areas, including taking the West of England contest from the Tories, while retaining others including Liverpool, Liverpool City Region, Doncaster and Salford.

Full article - Elections 2021: Labour's deputy leader Angela Rayner sacked as party chair - BBC News
 

Binkei Huckaback

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I don’t have the upbringing nor the million pound home of Corbyn.
What someone does with their money is irrelevant as long as they're earned it legally and paid their taxes as I'm pretty sure Corbyn would have. And by 'paid their taxes' I mean in full and not paying someone to look at how they can pay as little as possible using clever wheezes as undoubtedly many very rich tory supporters (and yes, unfortunately some Labour supporters).

But did he pay that much for it? A million pounds doesn't buy you much these days. And it is in his constituency. Now journey times to London are becoming shorter and shorter, would you rather he upped sticks and moved somewhere cheaper - say your home town - where his money would buy far more and help push local proprty prices to levels where they're unaffordable to local people?
 

An Ankoù

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But did he pay that much for it? A million pounds doesn't buy you much these days. And it is in his constituency. Now journey times to London are becoming shorter and shorter, would you rather he upped sticks and moved somewhere cheaper - say your home town - where his money would buy far more and help push local proprty prices to levels where they're unaffordable to local people?
Quite so. I bought my house for £34,000 just before interest rates hit 15%, but we still had MIRAS. When I came to sell it, it had risen to over ten times that price even though the area had become one of the less sought-after. I should think many old codgers and codgeresses are sitting in property they couldn't have dreamt of affording when they bought them.
 
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trummy

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Could hardly give my Grans house away 55 years ago - nobody wanted it stuck out in the sticks, now its very much a different story, the whole immediate area is much sought after. Its not just London where prices have escalated.

I wonder how the ethical standard of politics has changed over the last few years, and what influence the American political scene has had on that. Trump somehow made lying and dishonesty acceptable, the norm. BJ is very much cast in the same mould - flippantly lying and wasting money on his ego projects , what ever happened to austerity?
Re Brexit, its not plain sailing is it? In fact its a bit of a shambles, hopefully somehow normalisation can eventually be restored. If I knew then how things were going to turn out then I would have voted differently.
One last point it was the older generation that favoured Brexit, how many of them are no longer with us - is there still a majority of leavers? Water under the bridge I accept.
 

Nicks90

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My opinion of why Labour has done so badly is twofold.
Demographically you are more likely to be a brexit supporter if you are/were a Labour supporter. So most would have felt horribly let down by corbyn and the party politique. And those supporters have a long memory. BJ got it done and that's what they see.

Secondly is labour vasillates between modern Middle of the road socialism to hard left. How many people actually identify with that anymore? Downtrodden workers eeking out a scratch living under the thumb of cruel employers and living in hovels owned by unforgiving landlords and dreaming of car ownership and maybe one foreign holiday in a decade?
Reality is 70% of the country own their own home. Even people on modest incomes often have a mobile phone, fancy big TV and a new car on pcp deals. So your traditional labour heartland of binmen, factory workers, low ranking office staff and other low skilled, blue collar workers are materialistically speaking akin to the middle class of the 80s.
That is not the case for everyone, I know that, but the proportion of the population in that comparative poverty of 'workers' from the 70 and 80s is much lower.
Aspirationally do they still align to that 70s ethos of union representation and fight the middle class, or do they now see they are nearly middle class themselves?
Is this backed up by union membership? In the late 70s membership was over 13million. Now its about 6 million. So if union membership is so low as a section of society, is it right that the Labour Party is virtually run by those same unions? Is it right that members don't have a much higher proportion of the power in the Labour Party to reflect this change and does that put people off joining what they see as a Westminster arm of the trade unions?

And before I get lambasted, there are 69 million individual examples for and against and in between for all of the above and for all party political affiliations.
I can only vouch for my experience. My dad was a mechanic and my mum a waitress and we lived in an appalling council flat. We were virtually vegetarian as meat was too expensive and the first foreign travel we did was when I was 15. Other than that we went camping once a year. We were poor. **** poor and it was hard. My brothers eldest is now a mechanic for Honda. He owns a 2 bed flat is Bournemouth and owns a new Audi a2 and goes (went) to magaluf and Spain 3 times a year on lads holidays. That's some change don't you agree?
 
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Chippy_Tea

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Labour's Sadiq Khan has won a second term as London's mayor, beating Conservative rival Shaun Bailey.

He won 55.2% of the popular vote, after entering a run-off with Mr Bailey when neither managed to secure a majority in the first round of voting.

The former MP became the first Muslim mayor of an EU capital city when he was first elected to the role in 2016.

Speaking at City Hall, he promised "to strain every sinew to help build a better, brighter future for London".

The Green Party's Sian Berry came third, while the Liberal Democrats' Luisa Porritt was fourth.

The Lib Dems lost their deposit, as Ms Porritt failed to win more than 5% of the vote.

Elsewhere on Saturday evening, Labour lost overall control of Durham county council while the Tories continued to make inroads in its traditional heartlands.

Mr Khan was seen as the favourite throughout the campaign, with some pollsters predicting he would win more than half of the first-round votes.

The 51-year-old failed to reach his record-setting vote total of 2016, but won with a 228,000-vote majority.

Mr Khan's closest rival was Mr Bailey, who received 44.8% of the first and second-round votes, and increased the Conservative vote share by 1.6%.

Full article - London elections: Sadiq Khan wins second term as mayor - BBC News
 

cheeseyfeet

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Yes, it’s going to be very interesting to see what happens in Scotland. Given that secession affects the whole country, I think that another independence referendum should be held UK wide, and if we decide to part ways, which would be a massive shame, then so be it.
I hear this argument often and it's ridiculous, would you have accepted a Brexit referendum where all EU member state voters had a say?
 

Binkei Huckaback

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Re Brexit, its not plain sailing is it? In fact its a bit of a shambles, hopefully somehow normalisation can eventually be restored. If I knew then how things were going to turn out then I would have voted differently.
One last point it was the older generation that favoured Brexit, how many of them are no longer with us - is there still a majority of leavers? Water under the bridge I accept.
My opinion of why Labour has done so badly is twofold.
Demographically you are more likely to be a brexit supporter if you are/were a Labour supporter. So most would have felt horribly let down by corbyn and the party politique. And those supporters have a long memory. BJ got it done and that's what they see.
Corbyn was the right leader at the wrong time and unfortunately because he supported leaving the EU, but the party didn't, it was a complete disaster. As far as I'm aware, at least some 'old' Labour support for leavung the EU was around protection of jobs, but in the second decade of the 21st century, this was a bit redundant as technology makes it possible to off-shore jobs and manufacturing jobs go overseas where labour is cheaper because consumers want to pay as little as possible for goods.

If would have been far better to evolve and see that as a bloc, the EU offers workers much more in protection and rights than a government which to a greater or lesser extent can and probably will do what it wants when donors want a return or multi-nationals with a lot of cash want somewhere they can pay a little less tax (yes, I am aware of some sweetheart deals in Ireland).
 

Chippy_Tea

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Corbyn was the right leader at the wrong time and unfortunately because he supported leaving the EU, but the party didn't, it was a complete disaster
I couldn't agree more.
 

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Very complex issue, but I think the demise of the Labour party/hegemony of the Tories (in England - as we are seeing different patterns in Wales, and of course both are as good as dead in Scotland) can be attributed to the following:

1. The eradiction of the British working-class as a common identity and political force from the 1980s. Not only the destruction of heavy industry, which gave millions of people shared work, common identity and cause, but the cultural and political institutions linked to them: trade unions, community and social clubs, pubs also. Labourism was built on this - i.e. material bonds of solidarity and community - and now it's gone.

2. Thatcher is arguably the most successful British politician of the past century, as she set out to transform society, and achieved it, with all subsequent PMs picking up the mantle - especially Blair. What we see now is a working-class that is highly atomised and individualised, with most people no longer really identifying as being working-class - at least in the way that underpinned Labourism and its bonds of solidarity and community. You can also see this in the nature of work now - temporary and zero-hours contracts, sole traders, etc. Right to buy and the increase of home ownership also played a role in this, as it instilled individualism and the idea of 'aspiration' in many minds: people don't want to be working-class, they want to be petty bourgeois. This is the ideology of the Tory party - how can another party mobilise in these conditions?

3. The Labour party itself. The party has been on a slow path of self-destruction since the 1980s. The ideological break from social democracy in the 1980s and towards Tory-lite neoliberalism was cemented by Blair. While this translated to electoral success (and don't his disciples like to hark on about it), this also benefitted from the zeitgeist of the late 90s - the cultural moment and ecomonic ascendency of the times - as well as low turnout and woo-ing some of the Tory vote. The long-term impact of Blair was alienation - from the Iraq involvement, but moreover the abandonment of working-class identity and connection with working-class communities. This has left a lot of bitterness and distrust towards the Labour Party. More recently, this has been seen in the case of Corbyn. What the rise of Corbyn represented was a desire to return to the social democratic values of old Labour amongst the rank and file membership (and this was mild social democracy - not the 'hard left' as many believe). However, the core of the elected politicians in Labour party are die hard Blairites and are ideologically opposed to social democracy; they would rather lose an election than return to traditional Labour values. So, they did this in 2017 - Labour could have won in 2017, the policies were popular, but the party itself undermined the leadership and they narrowly lost. Then came 2019 and the Brexit-Boris axis - the Corbyn leadership was handicapped on the Brexit issue as core voters wanted one thing, while metropolitan voters and the PLP politicans wanted another. It was impossible to appease this split and win this election, and was the perfect storm to remove Corbyn/social democracy and shift the party back to the right under Starmer (who is ultimately a spineless Tory-lite idiot, not a charismatic professional politician of the Blair mold as his supporters like to think).

4. The media, which played a huge role in denting Corbyn's perception and the popoluarity of his policies, as well as garnering support for the Tories. While people perceive the policies under Corbyn as 'hard left' they were anything but - mild social democracy and forms of nationalisation you see in Germany under the centre-right CDU! However, the ownership of print media in Britain is concentrated in the hands of a very wealthy few, and is deeply right-wing, so you can see why they would want to pursue a character assassination of someone who wanted to raise taxes on the wealthy, and support a party which always works in their favour. There is a symbiotic relationship between the press and the Tory party, and general political opinion has shifted to the right since the 1980s (see above points), so it's easy to create a sense of opinion that mild social democracy still common in Europe is like Stalinism. Added to this you have the populist-celebrity appeal of Boris, who is frequently painted as a caddish loveable toff rogue.

5. English nationalism. Through the combination of the above, and the cultural impact of Brexit, the Tories can more easily mobilise support through being the party of English identity and nationalism. This creates a sense of connect with disparate communities from a range of very different areas and socio-economic backgrounds - even though the Tory party is very clearly a deeply corrupt and morally bankrupt party run by and for the wealthiest.

Labour in Wales is a different story, but I've written enough for one day.
 

Justin Dean

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Thank you. A lot of truths in this though a heavy self indignant bias I think, fair enough, what one believes is their identity. Afraid I disagree about "deeply about corrupt and morally bankrupt", what evidence is there of this?
 

Justin Dean

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My opinion of why Labour has done so badly is twofold.
Demographically you are more likely to be a brexit supporter if you are/were a Labour supporter. So most would have felt horribly let down by corbyn and the party politique. And those supporters have a long memory. BJ got it done and that's what they see.

Secondly is labour vasillates between modern Middle of the road socialism to hard left. How many people actually identify with that anymore? Downtrodden workers eeking out a scratch living under the thumb of cruel employers and living in hovels owned by unforgiving landlords and dreaming of car ownership and maybe one foreign holiday in a decade?
Reality is 70% of the country own their own home. Even people on modest incomes often have a mobile phone, fancy big TV and a new car on pcp deals. So your traditional labour heartland of binmen, factory workers, low ranking office staff and other low skilled, blue collar workers are materialistically speaking akin to the middle class of the 80s.
That is not the case for everyone, I know that, but the proportion of the population in that comparative poverty of 'workers' from the 70 and 80s is much lower.
Aspirationally do they still align to that 70s ethos of union representation and fight the middle class, or do they now see they are nearly middle class themselves?
Is this backed up by union membership? In the late 70s membership was over 13million. Now its about 6 million. So if union membership is so low as a section of society, is it right that the Labour Party is virtually run by those same unions? Is it right that members don't have a much higher proportion of the power in the Labour Party to reflect this change and does that put people off joining what they see as a Westminster arm of the trade unions?

And before I get lambasted, there are 69 million individual examples for and against and in between for all of the above and for all party political affiliations.
I can only vouch for my experience. My dad was a mechanic and my mum a waitress and we lived in an appalling council flat. We were virtually vegetarian as meat was too expensive and the first foreign travel we did was when I was 15. Other than that we went camping once a year. We were poor. **** poor and it was hard. My brothers eldest is now a mechanic for Honda. He owns a 2 bed flat is Bournemouth and owns a new Audi a2 and goes (went) to magaluf and Spain 3 times a year on lads holidays. That's some change don't you agree?
The power of social mobility,
 

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